Do career women get more kudos than part-timers/sahms?

[Mcemmabell]

I don't know if it's just my experience, but I feel like I hear a rhetoric day to day where the women I know who are very career focused (demanding full time work, considered "high flying") get kudos and praise from other women. I've recently heard relatives and friends talking with admiration about how dedicated and hard working women in these positions are. But women who work part time or are sahms, I don't hear them getting any praise for the hours they put into childcare and keeping house. Or the sacrifices they make for their children.

Is this just part of the sexist discourse that diminishes the value of any traditional female activity? I would love to hear someone say "Oh, Jean works so hard to take care of her kids." But I never do.

Note: I take the feminist attitude that women should be supported to do whichever of these they want. No one is better than anyone else because they work full time out of the house or because they take care of their kids full time in the house.

Anyway, am I imagining things or is looking after your own children (as a mother) still an undervalued activity that gets very little recognition from the outside world?

This is an odd question

Of course women who actually achieve something get more kudos than women who keep children alive. One is difficult the other is not.

People make positive comments about my job and how well I do managing everything but my son is often home alone so it's rubbish. I would prefer to be able to work part time and be the mum I have always wanted to be rather than having to work full time in a very demanding job as I'm a single parent. I don't care if people think I do a good job at work and think my job is great. I would prefer to be a part time worker and be able to focus more on being a mum.

As with all things, OP, women are damned if they do (ie maintain career) and damned if they don't (take more junior pt role or become a SAHM). That said, I know lots of women in professional roles who work PT in their original field.

But everyone is compromising and everyone is judged, to a certain extent. Whatever their balancing act is. Essentially someone will judge you and find you wanting, whatever your work life balance is!

I think acknowledging a man or woman’s career achievements is common place. I also see parents congratulated if their kids are well behaved or “a credit to them”

i can’t imagine anything quite as condescending as oh jeanie works so hard to take care of her kids, unless there were additional needs.

we all work hard to look after our kids. It’s not unique to those who don’t work outside the home.

It depends on your circle but all through primary working parents felt free to tell me how demanding their day was, wanging on about work and stress but how they could never "do what you do and not work" how they would be bored etc etc. Now the kids are older in secondary they do the opposite and tell me how lucky I was to have "all that time" with dd.
Some people will just never be happy because they don't want to be. Most of these women could have stayed at home but decided the kudos of "doing it all" was more important to them, and some of them regret it. You do what you feel is right and sod whatever anyone else says. I wish I had known this when I was worrying in primary I was setting a bad example to dd and all of the other rubbish I was bombarded with.

I think many people think like this but the reality is always more complex than simply whether someone is a SAHP or WOHP.

1. Earned - lots of people have benefitted from unearned advantage. Whether it be their parents giving them money to fund a house deposit, benefitting from a trust fund or nepotism at work.
2. Being self sufficient - many people work and their family still claim tax credits and need support from the government . Many SAHPs are part of a family unit that are net contributors from a tax perspective. Many WOHPs need two incomes in order to afford their lifestyle and therefore aren't self sufficient as individuals.
3. Not looking for handouts - again see earlier points. In my experience lots of families with two working parents rely on help either from the government or from family.
4. Provide for the family - there are many ways to provide for the family. You can earn money but you can also cook, clean and care for dependents etc All of these things are necessary for family life and it's misleading to focus on the financial elements alone.
5. Truly being equal in a relationship - again this is a concept that goes way beyond the financial and is all about the structure and dynamics of a relationship. It encompasses things like personality, control and respect. Having two WOHPs doesn't guarantee an equal relationship, even from a financial perspective. The amount of women that end up paying for child related expenses or funding their own maternity leave is outrageous.

Tbh I give most "kudos" to those working FT or PT in low paid roles while juggling childcare and housework.

I don't think badly of those in well paid careers or SAHMs, but they don't have quite such a hard life IMO.

This is a terrifying comment and I hope you don't have children or take on any other caring role.

Low paid roles are typically low stress. Those in high paid careers are often the most stressed so this comment is a bit at odds with reality

I have a child and a career. One is lot more difficult than the other.

Its like asking why marathon runners get more kudos than Shelly who jogs her kids to school

They do I think and it can make you feel rubbish and devalued, but I also get it. Women have had to work very hard to be able to be working mums. It’s like how dads who work part time or stay at home are given more kudos now. I wish more people could be accepting and appreciative of all choices women make. Those who work part time or are with the kids 24/7 work dann hard and we should support it.

But I also agree, separate from being a parent, higher paying jobs are given more kudos. It’s like a thread recently where a woman’s son wanted to be a teacher and that was seen as a bad thing and not impressive as he was ‘clever enough’ to do something better ie higher paying.

A lot of jobs are beneficial to society, which is why "society" gives kudos to the people working them. Society doesn't always get this right - some jobs are absolutely essential but are not respected and so people working them don't get the kudos. But on the whole, the principle is sound.

Staying at home to look after one's own children is not beneficial to society (there's no evidence that children of SAHP are happier, more successful as a next generation etc. than children of WOHP). Therefore "society" doesn't give kudos to the people doing it. Validation should come from the other parent, IMHO.

And which one is harder? Surely it depends on your job or your child? Not everything is linear.

Then you should know that it's about a lot more than keeping a child alive. Raising happy, healthy children that go on to be valuable members of society is seldom easy. Almost all the parents I know (many in high pressure careers) would list their children as their biggest achievement.

This isn't about WOH or SAH or any other kind of parenting. It's about parenting in general and acknowledging that it is often bloody difficult. Go on countless threads on this forum and you will have evidence of this. Diminishing this and pretending that only paid work is difficult does a terrible disservice to parents and children.

oh behave. Caring for your own children is a walk in the park compared to most if not all careers.

Kudos from whom? People don't go around giving each other kudos for their lifestyle choices.

Perhaps it's more obvious when it's job-related as there are specific things people might want to celebrate - a promotion, a new dream job, an important deal or commission. So yes they'd absolutely and deservedly get kudos for those things. I can't really think what the equivalent would be for a SAHP.

Ultimately I admire anyone who has managed to get the life they wanted to have, that's no small thing. Whether succeeding in your chosen career or thriving as a parent. I only have one acquaintance who always seems to have sarcastic comments about the SAHMs in our social circle but she's not exactly passionate about her job either so I always wonder if she just doesn't like other people being satisfied with their choices.

Why do you think people should get kudos for raising their own children?

Who they decided to have, who they kind of have to look after.

Its an odd post indeed

Those who work in finance get a lot more kudos than those who are social workers or teachers, which sucks. More pay, more benefits and more kudos.

I think it’s pretty harsh to say someone who looks after their own kids and dedicates their time to that isn’t as important. You can be a good parent in lots of different ways and some people will be a better parent at home, just as some will be a better parent if they work. Being a good parent and supporting your family is important imo. It’s really harsh to say otherwise.

Picture it the other way around - a dad decides to work part time or be at home with his kids instead. What is your view on that? Is it negative too? If not, why? I think it’s more to do with fighting sexism for women then because there is something wrong with being at home.

I have quite a prestigious career - a PhD, well-regarded employer, a job that would definitely raise people's eyebrows a bit. Honestly, no one ever asks me what I do! I have had people who have known dh and I for years and were surprised I worked. 😂I think they see the financial success we've had and they see that dh and I are generally around (we both work quite flexibly) and they assume that I must be at home and dh must be working, and just never thought to ask.

Around here, thinking about the mum's I know from school, none of them have 'big jobs'. Some of them do a bit of part-time admin for their dh's or are 'farmer's wives'. Some of them work fairly low wage jobs. Some are are at home. So maybe if you are a SAHP or work very part-time, you just assume everyone else does the same and the topic never comes up? I'd love it if someone gave me some kudos for all my hard work though!

I've had office jobs where I could do the work in the first hour and faff about doing my own utilities/emails for house repairs, deliveries etc, which . I got paid a low but decent wage but felt like a monkey in a cage. I'd rather spend the time with my kids, but then I have to do those at home while they are around rather than in the peace and quiet of an office with an income and free coffee.

Working is a hell of a lot easier than being with my sen kid all day, especially with how it affects your mental health. My husband feels the same and he is in a very ‘difficult’ high powered job. So it really depends actually.

I think it just depends on who you know really doesnt it

I have a friend who is single but coparents well with her ex. She works fulltime and was studying last year too. And I am so incredibly proud of her. She has done so well balancing everything ( she has had a very difficult time )

I am a single mum with zero support, I do not work and my friend always tells me what a good job I do with my kids, how well I'm doing raising them and how proud she is of me for slowly getting mentally better over the years

I feel she deserves more admiration than me for juggling so much and doing so well but she feels I deserve more admiration for doing it all on my own

But really, we are just two mums just trying our best for ourselves and our kids

But the working parents have also done that and they are getting extra kudos. That’s the point.

I wish we weren't in competition. Life is hard enough at times without running each other down.

The thread about should I agree with my friend to keep the peace that being a sahp to three preschoolers is harder than working has brought out the worst of us...

Yes, that's the other way society gets it wrong - it assumes benefit where there may be actual harm (financial trading etc.).

I didn't say it was less important. I said it doesn't have a societal benefit. A person may well be a better parent if they work fewer hours but that's not the same as SAHP having a societal benefit. If there were evidence that SAHP are raising 'better' humans for the next generation than those working then boom, societal benefit. But there isn't. The benefit is to oneself, one's kids and one's family unit. Not something anyone else should be expected to give kudos for.

Picture it the other way around - a dad decides to work part time or be at home with his kids instead. What is your view on that? Is it negative too? If not, why? I think it’s more to do with fighting sexism for women then because there is something wrong with being at home.

I didn't say it was negative. I said it was neutral. And yes, it would apply to men just as to women (which is why I used the term SAHP and not SAHM).