AIBU for telling my friend that being a SAHP and working full time are both equally difficult?

[AnitaLovesIndianFood]

sorry, this is a long post

So my best friend won’t talk to me for days now.

Basically she had an argument with her DH about division of labour in the house. She said that she expects her husband to also do housework when he comes home from his 60 hour a week job as a GP. He says that he is too tired and needs to rest when he is home, but she says “I work 24 hours as a SAHP, so should you”.

She then vented to me and asked my opinion. I personally believe that being a SAHP isn’t as hard as people say it is. BEFORE people jump down my throat, this is my own personal opinion based on personal experience. Both my husband and I had our turns being stay at home parents with both of our children. When one of us was staying home, we made sure that the one working outside the house had to do minimal work in the house. Both of us agreed that having the ability to stay at home and watch our children grow up with a privilege rather than a burden. Again, that’s just our opinion.

Anyway, back to my friend. When she first had kids, she dictated to her husband that she was going to stay at home while he works, even though I remember him asking they could divide the home and work duties so that they both get equal time with the kids. She didn’t agree, and I remember her telling me that she finds a man who wants to be at home unattractive.

Fast forward to now. When she asked me if I think her husband is being unreasonable by not helping in the house when he comes home, I said that I agree with her husband. I’ve seen how hard my local GP works; countless 10 minute appointments one after the other, making potentially life changing decisions in each of them. I can only imagine how exhausted my friend’s husband is. Of course he needs to switch his mind off after such a mentally taxing work.

I then politely reminded her of how she chose this, she refused to accept an arrangement with her husband in which childcare is shared, so now she needs to live with her decision. I again asked her how she would feel if her husband was to reduce his hours to part-time, and she started working part time again so that they could both equally split the home duties.

She then refused to talk to me, said that I was disrespecting all stay at home parents and that I’m a disgrace to women. She said that as a mum myself I should appreciate how difficult being a SAHP is. She basically wanted me to agree that her role is more difficult than his, even though she happily accepts the lifestyle associated with being married to a high earner.

Now she won’t talk to me until I be a good friend and take her side. I don’t know what to do, I’m risking throwing away a friendship I’ve had my whole life, but I fundamentally do not agree with her and I’ve never been someone to just agree for the sake of harmony.

What would you do? What can I do to make her forgive me without compromising my stance?

I've been both. Being a SAHP is a piece of cake compared to working full time and being a parent. When I was a SAHP, I could sit down, play on my phone, take the kids to soft play, groups etc. None of which is like having a job. As a working parent I got to do all that crammed into the few hours I wasn't working or the weekends, plus do the housework. Plus get the kids to and from nursery, or school or activity.

Your friend is an idiot if she can't see that. In my experience, lots (not all) of SAHP see the time that the working parent getting home as a time for a break for them, totally forgetting that the other person has been working, often doing physical things all day too. Both parents need to work it so they get a break.

Sounds like she’s regretting her choice and is unhappy
not necessarily harder just doesn’t want to do it

Yanbu for refusing to agree with your friend on something you don't agree with.

However, ime I found that being a sahp was SO MUCH harder than going to work. MUCH HARDER!! And that was with one dc. I'm guessing it would have been doubly hard with two dc?? I don't know.

However, I also appreciated that it was a privilege many can't afford because for all the difficulty, it was very fulfilling being able to be at home with my dc and watch them grow.

Having said that, being a GP is a different kettle of fish, so I would give my dh grace and lower expectations around house chores and duties around children.

The kids are both preschool at home full time. So I know she is busy and tired.

And the husband does help on weekends, the only thing he asks is that on weeknight he has a few hours to himself when he comes home from his 12 hour day doing very complex work. Not saying that being a SAHP isn’t complex, but a GP also has 30 other people holding them to account each day.

That’s interesting, what was you and your husband’s experience? Did he have the mental energy to contribute after long shifts?

I agree with people that working full time means you end up also having many of the SAHM jobs too- the idea that all blokes will fully step up to totally sharing isn't my experience - I didn't find being aSAHM for a short period hard- more a bit dull

Completely disagree
As a sahp i did 100% of the night feeds. Or wakings for one till they were 3.5yp.
Taking kids places can be dangerous, roads etc. They can choke when weaning.

Anyway if wpshe werent there he would have to
Cook
Clean
Tidy
Himself anyway
...
So why should her being home for the kid mean he has to do nothing.

And no a working parent doesnt do the same. (Yes they have to share nights between them etc. But no they obviously dont do the 8-6 work as they arent there.
I would have expected that thought to have died out after covid when people had to try to be a sahp and work.

They do have to do a lot of cooking and cleaning still. But some parents have the kids awake just about 1hr a day at home.

Trying to stop a 1yo injuring themself is harder than sotting on zoom meetings on an office.

Also what if both parents were gps ? Who cleans/cooks then if they are both so exhausted?

Yes of you did have a dc that napped and sat still read a book etc that may well be easiest job. (But mum likely still spends 60 hrs a week looking after the dc)

The kids are both preschool at home full time. So I know she is busy and tired.

And the husband does help on weekends, the only thing he asks is that on weeknight he has a few hours to himself when he comes home from his 12 hour day doing very complex work.

Hmm I don't think he should have do housework in the evenings if he doesn't want to. I wouldn't want to get home from a 12 hour day as a GP and start hoovering for example. It can wait until the weekend.

But is he refusing to do bedtimes/any parenting in this time as well? I don't think he can come home and be unavailable for a few hours.

I agree with you OP

Personally I think being a STAHP is piss easy compared to the stress of a working full time and being responsible for financially supporting a family whilst also meeting (and exceeding if you want to get promotions and pay rises to keep on top of cost of living rises) expectations of colleagues / clients / employer not to mention if it's a job with pressure or responsibilities and then also trying to be a good parent as well and then also doing household admin outside of work hours and weekends

Nothing anyone will ever say will convince me that being a STAHP is harder than working

How old are the kids? 3 under age 5 or with additional needs, she’s possibly shattered and he needs to do more. Older kids with no additional needs, she should be able to get things done easily and have free time.

I was a SAHM, still am. My partner had to do more when they were little but as they got older, my life was/is easy and I had loads of free time.

What is this 'I need to to rest when I'm at home' bullshit that her husband is spouting?

To be fair to your friend, that sounds utter bollocks to me, her point is as a SAHM she doesn't get to 'rest', so if he's coming home from work and putting his feet up while she still runs round cooking dinner, bath and bedding the kids, cleaning up after dinner, then doing night wakes etc while he does absolutely sod all 'because it's his rest time' then she's got an extremely valid point.. whether she chose that life or not, that's a real lack of respect from your husband to watch you struggling then say 'sucks to be you'.

Then you come along and stick the boot in some more, no wonder she's upset with you. This really isn't a one versus the other debate.. this is a human being struggling with the lack of an off switch and her support network letting her down.. some fucking friend you are.

But without knowing the specifics of what he does and doesn't do in the house, it's hard to judge to be fair, but you could have definitely been more diplomatic for sure.. you don't sound like you even like her, so no loss for you?

You don't sound like friends at all to be honest.

But you asked "What would you do?"

I'd avoid giving my opinion and if she really pushed me, I'd say whether they're both equally difficult, depends on the kids, the jobs and the parents.

But you sound quite preachy and I guess that rubbed her up the wrong way.

As if anyone is this involved with their friend's marital life. 😀

I think we can file this one under "things that never happened."

Nice try though OP.

I think it depends on the ages of the kids and their general behaviour and also what kind of job the non SAHP is doing - is it physical / mental or a combination of the two.

Firstly, having seen the update, I think pre-school is the most exhausting age. They can't do things themselves and it's frustrating but nor can they just lie there and babble on a playmate and enjoy fairy lights flickering as "sensory play" whilst you have a cup of tea.

If he wants his "down time" immediately after getting home at 6pm then she's not being unreasonable. Man up, and get the kids to bed before you collapse in a heap.

Playing "race to the bottom" is never a good idea so I think in your shoes I would have said something like "Gosh, life seems hard for you both - he must be under a lot of pressure at work and you are exhausted here - but this is probably the worst age so muddle on through and I'm always here if you want a moan".

But otherwise, with older / school age kids, SAHP is a doddle. I know someone who was a SAHP and has now gone back to work and I don't quite think they grasped how hard and knackering the juggle would be. Have tried not to say "I have been saying this for some time".

It sounds like this has turned into a battle of wills. How about just acknowledging that life is hard with small children, whether working or not? We all need to vent sometimes, and even if he works longer hours, it’s tough for her to be expected to do everything

Just seen that they’re both pre school age. In that case, I think that he needs to just muck in with whatever needs doing once he gets home. That’s life with young children. They can both have a few hours to themselves at the weekend.

Is there a chance that you've fallen into the trap of misreading what she was seeking from the conversation?
You've (reasonably imo) taken it as an invitation to offer advice and your opinion based on your experiences but perhaps what she was hoping for from the conversation was to let off steam, moan about DH and have a friend nod along and be a sounding board who doesn't say too much.

A few hours an evening is all evening then isn’t it? He can’t rest all evening - seems excessive tbh.

I would expect the DH to help with the dinner, bath and bedtime rush but not do anything after that.

Being a SAHP to babies and toddlers is hard work compared to a GP, even one with a heavy workload. The exhaustion, the relentlessness, the monotony, the inability to fix certain things which just are awful for long periods of time - ultimately, a job is a job. You can walk away. Not so with kids, obviously.

Once the youngest is out of the house for at least half a day/3 days per week, anyone in your friend's situation would be taking the piss. A GP working the hours he works shouldn't be asked to do more than cursory load the dishwashwer while I do bath and bed. That's during the week. At the weekend, it should be 50/50.

It gets a lot easier once the youngest is at school full time. Then there's really no comparison (except all the billion holidays, and even that isn't a big deal once the youngest is in secondary school).

Your friend is picking a fight with you because she's lost the fight at home and can't get anywhere with her DH. It's her problem, not yours. Give her some space, let her come back to you. You're not wrong in what you think, and you shouldn't apologise just to make her feel better. She will come to her senses eventually.

I agree with this. It really depends on whether she gets time when the children are at nursery or school.

Also, whether she gets to sleep enough is a main factor. I had 3-5 hours' sleep a night for the first few years of being a mother and there was no possibility I could cope with housework as I was so exhausted.

If she has time to sleep and do housework while the children are at nursery or school, that's different.

Obviously, being a GP is one of the more stressful and difficult jobs out there, so he will need a lot of relaxation/winding down time too.

I found being a SAHP much harder than working personally. It is emotionally and physically draining in a way work was not for me.

Me too. For me, it was less tiring to deal with rational adults who know what to do and do it, for the most part. Even leaving the house to go to work can be a change of scene, a little time on your own, not being watchful, pulling and dragging children, leaving one place, going to another etc.

Having done both, I really think it depends on how much, and how often one gets a break. It can be a little easier for the person working to get a few minutes here and there. When I was at home I could hardly ever step away without children. I found that "lockdown" very intense and was much better mentally when back in the workplace.

Regarding the GP and your friend - it sounds like she is trying to work things out. It also sounds like you picked a side, and scoled her.

"You made your bed now lie in it" is quite intolerant. Everyday of our lives we make decisions. Some work, some don't, but time moves, life is in a state of constant change. This will naturally mean that decisions are not stone and can/should be revisited and re - examined.

When one parent is s sahp, the other parents life is made at lot easier.
However the sahp can easily be overwhelmed and exhausted.

Sounds like they've fallen into the competitive tiredness trap. Both ate tired and are lashing out at each other rather than sympathising with each other.

There isn't an absolute answer into whether working or sahping is the harder role in those scenarios... depends on the kids and job. (Plus any other responsibilities the sahp might have.. care for an elderly relative, pets etc). His job sounds exhausting.

I’ve known her since we were 5. Best friends do give each other advice on their relationships. She trusts me with access to her bank account, medical records and pretty much everything else. And sometimes we argue but friends do that.

Way to tell people you have no friends without telling people you have no friends..

Thank you all for the advice about how it was wrong to say “ you chose this path, now live with it”. I agree that we can’t all know prospectively how our decisions will turn out.

Imagining here I’m back in the days of 3 kids under the age of 6 when I was a SAHP…

DH gets home about 7pm so I would be deep in bath/bed by that stage. I would definitely expect him to chip in so he sees a little of the kids, but would imagine kids in bed by 8pm. I would have cooked supper for everyone & he would re heat his portion & eat that… he would tidy up the kitchen if I hadn’t finished loading the dishwasher before going upstairs.

IMO things like meal planning & food shopping fit into a SAHP day & should be done alongside the kids…

I would have a cleaner though! We couldn’t afford one when I was actually a SAHM but would prioritise that now.

If he's working 12 hour shifts say 9:00 am to 9:00 pm, he probably does need to chill out for a while when he comes in and then it's bedtime. I wouldn't expect him to do anything much even if I was working and I had got back at 7:00 pm. If I was getting back at 9:00pm (which I did quite often when I was working) I really wouldn't want to start doing chores or start getting nagged about not doing chores.