AIBU for telling my friend that being a SAHP and working full time are both equally difficult?

[AnitaLovesIndianFood]

sorry, this is a long post

So my best friend won’t talk to me for days now.

Basically she had an argument with her DH about division of labour in the house. She said that she expects her husband to also do housework when he comes home from his 60 hour a week job as a GP. He says that he is too tired and needs to rest when he is home, but she says “I work 24 hours as a SAHP, so should you”.

She then vented to me and asked my opinion. I personally believe that being a SAHP isn’t as hard as people say it is. BEFORE people jump down my throat, this is my own personal opinion based on personal experience. Both my husband and I had our turns being stay at home parents with both of our children. When one of us was staying home, we made sure that the one working outside the house had to do minimal work in the house. Both of us agreed that having the ability to stay at home and watch our children grow up with a privilege rather than a burden. Again, that’s just our opinion.

Anyway, back to my friend. When she first had kids, she dictated to her husband that she was going to stay at home while he works, even though I remember him asking they could divide the home and work duties so that they both get equal time with the kids. She didn’t agree, and I remember her telling me that she finds a man who wants to be at home unattractive.

Fast forward to now. When she asked me if I think her husband is being unreasonable by not helping in the house when he comes home, I said that I agree with her husband. I’ve seen how hard my local GP works; countless 10 minute appointments one after the other, making potentially life changing decisions in each of them. I can only imagine how exhausted my friend’s husband is. Of course he needs to switch his mind off after such a mentally taxing work.

I then politely reminded her of how she chose this, she refused to accept an arrangement with her husband in which childcare is shared, so now she needs to live with her decision. I again asked her how she would feel if her husband was to reduce his hours to part-time, and she started working part time again so that they could both equally split the home duties.

She then refused to talk to me, said that I was disrespecting all stay at home parents and that I’m a disgrace to women. She said that as a mum myself I should appreciate how difficult being a SAHP is. She basically wanted me to agree that her role is more difficult than his, even though she happily accepts the lifestyle associated with being married to a high earner.

Now she won’t talk to me until I be a good friend and take her side. I don’t know what to do, I’m risking throwing away a friendship I’ve had my whole life, but I fundamentally do not agree with her and I’ve never been someone to just agree for the sake of harmony.

What would you do? What can I do to make her forgive me without compromising my stance?

If she's home all day why is there still housework to do at the end of the day? She sounds to want a very easy life!

Eh? You don’t do the same amount of parenting though, do you? Because whilst you’re at work your children are elsewhere.

Erm, because if you're at home all day with small children there's usually a lot of mess made and no time to clear it up as you're looking after the children. It's non-stop. There's a lot, lot less housework to do if you're out all day.

I've never understood people who spend so much time on line complaining that they so much to do! I did an OU degree when a SAHM and my children were nor neglected, before someone jumps on that bandwagon

If it's 'non stop' then you're doing something wrong!

Perhaps huge numbers of us are simply incompetent?

But there's none of the parenting being done throughout the day. Someone else/nursery/childminder/grandparents is doing that bit, so the mess from having a child at home all day isn't being created.

It's a different kind of work doing paid employment, but much less housework because no one is home during the day to mess the house up.

With DTwins it was just being a referee and food making/tidying after them/drinks/toilet trips/entertaining them all day long. It's relentless. My job is not relentless. I can have a cup of tea in peace, and finish it, hot.

I find it easier to pick them up from a day of nursery and come home to the house just as clean as we all left it at 9am, and make dinner, than I do the days I still have them at home. I'm knackered by the time dinner prep comes around.

Very different when it was just eldest DS as a SAHM. Very different. That was easy. I think the number of children and their ages are critical to how relentless/easy being a SAHM is. It was because of the absolute ease with DS that I was happy to do it with DTwins. Very much not the same experience. I went back to work to save my sanity.

I don't think it's shameful but it's important to me to show my daughters that you can be a mother but also don't have to take years out of your career.

I agree.

Thanks for this, I re-read my post and I realise I came across as very negative, probably best for me to avoid posting after a long day and during the bedtime routine! We can’t afford to put anything into a pension for me, but my youngest is at school soon and then I need to work out what I’m going to do next, possibly studying and re-training, possibly go down a career route or get a low stress weekend / evening job to get my confidence back. I have to remind myself that I can’t undo my years of unemployment, I need to look to the future now. I feel like I’m being made redundant from being a SAHM and it’s very scary thinking about what’s next. I cannot wait to get paid again, and to feel valued in the household in a monetary way. Also to have to ask my partner to look after the children sometimes because I’ve got something important to do.
(my partner is also completely transparent with money (I do all the finances, he barely spends on himself) and really supportive of me training / working again but I know he’s going to struggle to have to step up on the housework / childcare and he’ll have to do a lot more than he does now. He will miss having a housekeeper!)

LOL for all the SAHP whose kids also go to school and nursery and at you for being ridiculous to think it’s hard without a job!

I am sure he will but tough ;-)

You have time. It’s great to have that realisation now. It’s not your situation but reading the other thread about the OP’s sister whose partner left her and the kids for an affair is sobering reading for sahms. Hope you are married? Anyway do make some changes now. Looks like you have your head screwed on right so should be ok. Good luck!!

Totally agree

People who think it's the end of the world to take a few years out to look after your own children -it's often not. How many people these days stay in the same career / company for their entire lives? Sounds like a nightmare. I wouldn't want that for my daughters! That's not how the future will be. I read that, on average, a graduate in ten years time will change job nine times and have several career paths. Many careers as we know them, will not exist. People will need to be flexible and much more fluid and to change career paths if necessary. Actually, taking a few years out to be a SAHM can be brilliant career wise as you can reassess what you actually want from life going forward. Nobody needs to be locked into a role, or a variation of a role, for their entire lives. We are multi-faceted humans! Loads of SAHMs change direction completely and this is a good thing. Loads of dads change career paths, take time out too, for all kinds of reasons. My husband has been self-employed since he was 30 and he has had multiple roles and many different areas. I've been a SAHM, but now I work on my own terms as well. I think some people miss the point that lots of SAHMs have no intentions of returning to what they did in their 20s or 30s. You can retrain, start a business - the only limit is your energy and imagination.

I don't think it's the end of the world but it isn't something I will encourage for my daughters for many reasons. Of course, ultimately they will make their decisions should they decide to have children of their own.

I don't think anyone has said that people need to stay in the same career forever. There's a difference between changing careers and taking time out of work completely, changing directions is also possible without taking some time out of work.

Also, some men may do it but it's far more common for women to do it. Especially when children are involved.

Apologies - i meant to quote @telestrations post, not this one - not sure what happened there!
There's a difference between her being responsible for childcare and housework whereas he does the vast majority of housework vs him not doing a tap. Eg if she's asking him to do a deep clean after a full day of work then I would say that's unreasonable. However if he believes that as he's been at work he doesn't have to lift a finger then HE is unreasonable. Eg washing up after dinner, or putting a load of laundry away. He would have to do these things after work if he was single after all.

What's changing career got to do with anything? I have changed direction a few times, so I certainly won't be telling my dd that she needs to stay in the same job for life.

However, I've been able to change my career precisely because of the transferable skills and networks that I had built up over the years before that, and I haven't had to start again from the bottom. There is no way that I would be where I am in my career now if I had taken a few years out.

Of course, i understand that this wouldn't matter in the slightest to some people, because lots of people don't really have any career aspirations as such, and they are not particularly ambitious. They may not have the same attachment to the idea of "fulfilling my potential" that I carry around with me - I do recognise that the value that I place on this is directly linked to my own SAHM mother's bitter regrets about the fact she did not really make the most of her talents and strengths. I don't want to get to the end of my life feeling that I haven't made enough of it, because it has been painful to watch my mum go through this. I guess we are all influenced in different ways by what we see in our own parents.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves
I know a lot of people who've done what you've done by changing areas of work but not dropping back to junior roles.

Changing career is likely very different when it's a change of area with the benefit of up to date skills and a good professional network Vs a former career from 10 years ago that hasn't been touched since.
It's not that the second option is impossible but it's likely to look different.

Do you really think the only way to fulfill your true potential is in having a career? That's very limiting. A possible career is only one type of potential. There are so many more ways we can make a contribution to the world and so many more potentials we have. We'll never fulfill every potential we have in a lifetime.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves - Its good that you understand why you find the concept of a SAHM so terrifying. However, your mother was just one woman with her own individual issues and In sure you can realise that. I think you might need to be careful to not project this (understandable) complex you have onto your own daughter. She won't know how she feels until when and if her own children come along. There is more to life than defining success by a career title and your daughter may well define herself in a more multifaceted way.

I'm not projecting anything onto my dd, but she has observed the struggles that my mum has been through and she has also seen that it's perfectly possible to combine meaningful work and close family relationships so she has drawn her own conclusions. And yes, there is a chance that she might change her mind if and when she has kids - I don't think that's likely but if it's what she wants, I will of course support her.

I don't think the prospect of being a SAHP is terrifying at all. It just wouldn't be the way that I would ever choose to live my life because I want to have an impact beyond the sphere of my own family. To be fair, there are a lot of jobs that I wouldn't want to waste my time on as well!

And of course, you don't only have to be defined by your career - many people dedicate huge amounts of time to volunteering or campaigning etc, and that can be every bit as meaningful and impactful as paid work, or more so for many people. However, where people are dedicating the kind of time to such activities that actually enables them to make a real and lasting difference to the world, I wouldn't really regard them as being a SAHP in any case, because they have a major area of focus outside the home that takes up a lot of their time.

The issue for me is not really about paid work vs unpaid work. It is about scope and contribution. I would not want a life that is primarily focused inwards on my own family, without significant opportunities to contribute more widely. I wouldn't want my dd to limit herself to that kind of life either.

This is exactly how I feel too.

I also had a SAHM growing up and knew from as long as I could remember that if I had children, it wouldn't be what I would do at all.

Very few of us have jobs that are truly meaningful or really make an impact - beyond yourself, the money and the company you work for.

There are so many ways to make an impact in the world. Especially in the internet age - just find a cause. You could argue that many people are in careers that actually stunt their true potential, or mean that they don't have time to make an impact anywhere else.

The jobs that are true vocations for people - doctor, nurse, teacher, aid worker, social worker, artists, animal welfare workers, childcare staff etc etc - are usually the lowest paid. While someone with a fairly bland corporate title - what are they actually doing when all is said and done? The job might feel important to them and their colleagues, but people are all just in their own bubbles quite often.

Well, it depends. Many of us work in roles which do have a direct impact. Others earn a shit ton of money and use that to make an impact.

And yes, lots of people won't make much of a difference to wider society at all, whether they're in bland corporate jobs or at home with the kids. If they're happy and fulfilled and generally behaving as decent, law-abiding citizens/ bringing up their kids to do the same, then that's completely fair enough.

It's just not the kind of life that I would ever aspire to. I suppose it boils down to values in the end... what you think is important and what you want to do with your life.

I'm not judging anyone else's choices. I'm just sharing my own personal view on what is important to me. Others are free to live their lives according to what they think really matters - they don't need my approval.

I think this sort of thing is quite common, wanting to do the opposite of what you're parents did.. I see it quite often in that people who grey up really poor, spoil their children every chance they get, it doesn't necessarily make them better people, in fact it can have the opposite effect in some cases, they never learn to work hard and end up with a 'why should I?' type attitude that seeps into their everyday lives. It's completely understandable why it happens, but it's a shame that they never had the same opportunity to thrive because their parents were too busy trying to right the wrongs of the past.

I've always been a dedicated and above and beyond type of person in the workplace, and always had a career that I loved doing, but personally, lock down taught me that you shouldn't dedicate so much of your life to a career, because ultimately what do you have at the end? People often end up in retirement feeling unfulfilled because they've dedicated so much of their lives to the benefit of other people / companies and have nothing to show for it at the end, but by then it's too late to do anything about it.

I think you should try and find something that fulfills you and makes you happy and enables you to enjoy your downtime with a good work/life balance, there's no right or wrong answer as to what that balance should be.