My brother has hidden my nephews rugby playing...

[touchrugby]

Asking for my brother - I think he’s in a mess and I need to tell him what to expect and how unreasonable he was. Interested to hear from other divorced parents and sports teachers/ school administrators. I’ve tried to give as much context as possible.

My brother got divorced 4 years ago. They have (had?) an amicable coparent relationship- there was no cheating or unkindness in either side. My brother just became obsessed with giving his family a good life and he worked a lot of hours. When he wasn’t working he was a very engaged parent- my nephew is hugely sporty and they were always off doing sports- swimming, tennis, football, cross country etc. Ex SIL was a SAHP but eventually got frustrated (with justification) at never seeing her husband so went back to work and divorced him. They share 50/50 custody with my brother as the higher earner paying all DNs expenses.

My brother really wanted nephew to go to this very nice private school. To facilitate this he pays all the fees. It’s a great academic school so ex SIL was pretty happy-except for the sport. They’re a big rugby school and she was adamant that DN not play rugby due to injury risks. There was a big argument about it, with my brother and DN really wanting rugby, and her adamant that he wouldn’t play.

The school offers non contact rugby and eventually they agreed DN would do that. DN is in year 9 now and it’s recently come out that he switched to full contact rugby in the 3rd week of year 7 and SIL didn’t know. It’s come out because he’s recently been made captain of the A team and a few mums congratulated her.

It seems he hated the non contact team. He’s very gifted with sport and apparently it was a team of lads who just wanted to run around for a few hours and throw a ball. The school put little effort into it and there were no matches. He asked to switch to “proper” rugby and the school said they needed a parent to approve it- and my brother did.

His argument is that his son wanted it, the school did email SIL as well, and it’s been 2.5 years.
Her argument is that he knew her stance, he also knows she’s a bit disorganised and rarely reads emails especially ones about sport which she know my brother manages (she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!) and that my brother conspired to hide it.

She has a very valid point about the conspiring. She has a new partner. He works Saturdays so my brother used to have DN every Friday night so they could see each other, and he’d then take him to Sat morning matches before dropping him at SILs Sat evening. Brother and DN have both, in 2.5 years, managed not to say anything to her about his rugby which is obviously duplicitous, especially considering how good he is. Brother just managed all the kit and the washing and the games and it apparently never came up in conversation.

Shes utterly furious and is going to the school Monday to tell them to remove him from rugby. Brother planning on going to the school to tell them to keep him in rugby. DN is apparently going to refuse to return to his mums house unless she agrees to the rugby and is determined to continue.

I’ve maintained a good friendship with SIL. In many ways I’m closer her than my brother as I see her more (he’s still a workaholic in his non parenting time so he’s hard to get hold of!) I heard about the odd match but nothing specific, I assumed it was non contact and frankly don’t know anything about rugby anyway. She’s very unhappy with our family as obviously our parents knew as well. My dad watches half the matches!

Does anyone know what the school might do? My brother and nephew are digging their heels in and saying he’ll live full time at my brothers and my brother will therefore get full parental responsibility. I think this is rubbish and not legal. I am worried that a nice coparenting relationship is ruined and that SIL might lose my nephew. He loves his mum but he’s obsessed with sport and apparently A team captain at a school like his is a BIG deal. He’s already playing some 2nd eleven matches as well which is also apparently important. I don’t know how to feel about what my brother did. He has absolutely supported what DN wanted. My nephew is so happy playing rugby and so good at it and still uninjured, and it’s the game played by 90% of the school. She knew sending him there that if he didn’t play rugby he’d be a bit isolated but she will not have it.

Frankly I think there’s fault on both sides, but on balance how much more unreasonable was my brother and what the hell might happen next?

I hate when people do the slow tippy toe to the thing that they want, it's so manipulative, your brother should have grown a pair and had a conversation with her if he thought it was so right that the boy did the sport.

Your Brother chose the school he wanted for the boy, she agreed with one compromise that would make it okay and he pretended to compromise whilst letting the kid do the thing that was too dangerous for her comfort.
Maybe she didn't look into it because she thought she could trust him to respect her as a co parent. It really hurts when your child is instructed to lie to you, that's what my child's so called father does, it erodes the relationship with the child and the lied to parent.
Now she may loose her child altogether because she wants to protect him still.

Your Brother was wrong all the way through this he has orchestrated this and if he lets the kid suspend his relationship with his Mother now at it's lowest point then he doesn't really have the child's interests at heart. This is why children shouldn't get to choose to cut off a parent, because it's very easy to manipulate a teenager.

Personally I think SIL is in the wrong. She has not taken into account DN’s wishes at all and realistically DN is more likely to be injured in a RTA but I expect he’s allowed to walk on a path next to a road and go into a car.

DB and DN have gone about it in the wrong way, but is DB and DN we’re together the result would probably be the same school would need parental consent and DB would give it and has just as much right to as SIL. I think the only way he would be wrong would be if he wanted DN to do rugby and DN didn’t.

We all went to boarding school and my brothers were very involved in rugby. They are fine and have successful careers and are functioning on all cylinders thankfully. I won't let my own sons play rugby however, and for the same reason as your SIL and thankfully they haven't expressed an interest in doing so as they prefer other sports.

My issue would be is that not only is it dishonest but if your nephew had got a bang to the head or possible concussion then would your SIL have been informed of this? All very hypothetical I know, but would their have been a conspiracy to say nothing when your nephew may have needed to be watched like a hawk for for a few days.

I think it's too late now and I don't think it's fair to involve the school (it is not a school issue) and your nephew is obviously enjoying it very much and is good at it but if I was your SIL I would be extremely cross and feel very let down.

The rugby element is irrelevant

I feel so, so very sorry for your SIL. To realise that her ex has lied to her for two years is bad enough but to then have to deal with her ex & family encouraging her DS to lie to her every day for 2 plus years is heartbreaking.

Your DB is a totally selfish twat with zero respect for his DS or his ex

He's basically taught his son that to lie to the most important woman in your life is OK. He's now causing further damage by allowing his son to bully and manipulate one of the two most important people in his life into doing what he wants or pay consequences.

And you think your DB is a good father when he's not working? These are some of the most important life lessons for children and your DB has completely fucked up.

What a lucky escape she's had getting out of this awful family. Multiple people lying to her, encouraging her child to be deceitful to his mother, displaying behaviour that shows it's OK to treat people this way. Allowing her DS to threaten her with low/no contact if she doesn't comply. I don't think you, your DB, your FIL, your DN and everyone who was complicit have any idea what they've done. Huge issue of trust. That's almost always irreparable. Things will NEVER be the same again beween your SIL and her DS. NEVER. Regardless of outcome of the rugby issue.

Absolutely shocking. I cannot believe you're trying to justify some of this.

And she DID compromise - she agreed to NC rugby.

She must be devastaded. I'm hoping she has good friends and family around her. And please don't twist the knife with your skewed views on this - leave her be - he's doesn't need 'friends' like you.

And before you or anyone else asks, yes, this touched a nerve and yes, I've had a similar experience - and none of that diminishes what I've said IMO.

Totally agree @MadMadaMim

Your SIL brought this on herself. She's being a complete helicopter parent and snowflake. She cannot wrap her son in cotton wool, all of his life.

It is not illegal at all for your DN to stay with his Dad and refuse to see Mum. She needs to suck it up for a bit of rugby, and if she refuses to watch her son at his marches, cheer him on, support him, because she's utterly self absorbed in her weak little feelings - She's a selfish Mum and should be ashamed. Most boys play some form of contact sport- She needs to get over herself.

No he can’t at his age. A judge would make the decision and it would be unlikely he would change the status quo until the Nephew is an older teen.

Oops, just noticed the boy is in year 9, not aged 9. My mistake.

Very unlikely. Players rarely play up at that age due to size differences. And if they do typically just the year up and then they are not allowed play in certain positions such as scrum half.

Oh do bore off! If you're such a perfect parent that you've never missed an alleged email from school, I suggest it's because you don't have children.

We don't even know there was an email sent to mum, we only have the word of liars & deceivers.

It's not 'controlling' to make a parental decision about your child and their safety, that's literally a parents job.

Maybe, given the opportunity of truth and honesty, by this point, maybe she would have been okay with contact sports with safety equipment but, we'll never know because everyone involved lied, repeatedly.

Mum is the wronged party here and to some extent the son because he's a child and his father and grandparents should have behaved better.

Being captain of the A team is a big achievement. He clearly hasn't been injured in all this time. She should just let him have this now to keep the peace with her son.

This ^

The son is old enough now to make those decisions and I don’t think I’d stop my son from following his passion.

Oh do bore off! If you're such a perfect parent that you've never missed an alleged email from school, I suggest it's because you don't have children.

But it's not just one email, it's two and a half years of emails. Plus school reports, parent-teacher meetings, sports days, social media posts, etc.

What about "HOUSE" Rugby competitions between the different school houses?

I am sure the school would have house competitions every year

So the DM saw none of these results or reports or photos in any newsletter or online?

What about AWAY matches during the week why did she not question why he was later getting home

Sometimes matches with other schools are on different days to regular games afternoons as the other school might have games lessons on different weekday so they would swap which school changed timetable each year

So how was that not noticed by DM if it wasn't the regular day for games?

Open days - weren't the U14A team doing a display of their training for prospective parents and potential new boys?

So he’s been playing rugby for 2.5 years and mum had absolutely no idea?? But she’s a good mum?? Wow!… in all that time she never checked in or went to watch a ‘non contact’ rugby match?? I’m astounded!

BUT….. my view is that Dad was absolutely wrong to lie/not discuss this with mum…. And wrong to allow son to hide it from his mum!
BUT her putting an all out ban on him playing contact rugby is also wrong… kids can’t be wrapped in bubble wrap and should be allowed to engage in sports… all activities carry risk, walking down stairs, driving a car, cycling…. She has to minimise risk rather than nan things entirely!

You SIL now has her hands tied and I feel she’s probably more pissed off with the fact they’ve both lied to her for 2.5 years than she is about him actually playing… that betrayal is painful so she’s now digging her heels in and feels they need punishing .. what better punishment than banning rugby!!…. But she is treading on dangerous ground now.. she bans rugby her son will resent that potentially for the rest of his life! Not just in the short term by moving in full time with dad and playing rugby anyway without her consent, but long term !!
If my parents stopped me doing something I loved and was good at I’d have hated them for holding me back!! Who knows this could be a career for him, or help him get into college! Your SIL needs to let it be known she’s upset they’ve gone behind her back but she absolutely needs to give her son her blessing to play!
As others have said, court will absolutely let a 14/15 year old choose who to live with, no question (unless there were welfare issues) and you brother would easily get full custody. Your SIL stands to loose her son over this and seriously needs to stand back for a week and process this and calm down. If she goes into school and ruins rugby for the son then she’s lost him !!

Where's the love, care, and concern when it comes to skiing?

Three years ago she ignored an important email - one of apparently 10,000 ignored emails.

In what parallel universe is being so scattered that you have 10,000 unopened emails a get out of jail card?

I don't feel sorry for her at all. That's what happens when you are an authoritarian parent who doesn't listen to what your children's passions are and try to force them to do what you want unreasonably. They find a way to do what they want anyway, lie to you and you gradually become irrelevant in their lives, unless you start listening to them and respecting them as an individual person. Plus have others have said, wow what an involved parent she must be to not read school emails or go and watch him play.

We don't know that that's factual or any context. Dad/ex is a liar & OP biased, consciously or subconsciously.

Either this is made up (attention/'journalist' or there's far more not being said (to avoid her brother looking even worse maybe).

The SIL isn’t the victim here. Nor is the brother absolutely innocent or a great co-parent.

if there’s a victim (and I’m not sure there is one at this point), it’s the son. Both his parents at this point need to talk to him, listen to him and do what they can to ensure that his relationships with both his parents stay positive. Indeed, that his mum
can start rebuilding a relationship that’s clearly been strained by her talking absolutely no interest in something that’s probably a very significant part of her son’s life.

The way to deal with the safety concerns is to talk to the DS. Read all the information on preventing head injury and talk to him about safety.

Your brother should have respected her choices. However, SIL is wrong about rugby. It’s a great game and there’s far more risk in riding a bike or going on a trampoline. Yes, very occasional injuries do happen, as they do in boxing or martial arts. Even ballet and gymnastics have risks of injury. SIL should never have stopped him.

I think that the DM was brilliant. By insisting that her son not play rugby and throwing a hissy fit and continuing to do it 2.5 years later she has just pushed her child into wanting to play. And now as an adolescent her son will be sure to never give the game up and maybe even choose it as a career. Whereas if she had been reasonable he may not have cared so much.
That was a really smart strategy DM! Oh, I forgot, DM never learned the value of sport.

You conveniently left out how the mother did let him play rugby (non-contact) and that she had believed he had been happily playing that all this time.

Non contact rugby is not at all comparable, @HollyKnight . Did you not read what the OP said about it?

Touch Rugby can be good, but the reality is only the non sporty kids at a private school would play non contact, thus for a sporty kid it would be dreadful.

What nobody in this thread seems to have mentioned is that someone who has had concussion is three times more likely to commit suicide than someone who hasn't. A big Danish population study looked at 126,114 people who had had concussion and found that the number of suicides (750) was triple that of the general population. Of course the number of people who think about suicide after concussion must be much more.

And at the risk of boring people I'd like to add that after concussion there is a 16.8% risk of damaging your pituitary gland, so that you can't make the hormones your body needs. There are five crucial pituitary hormones and if you are short of any particular one, depression will be one of your symptoms. It isn't a big leap to suspecting that the high suicide rate could be connected.

(After our son's suicide we set up a website, Christopher Lane Trust, which gives more information. Note that pituitary damage can be treated by regular hormone replacement.)

I definitely think parents should steer their children towards the non-contact version of rugby. The recent paper arguing that encouraging children to play impact sports is a form of child abuse, admits that tackle versions of rugby promote 'fun, health and social objectives' but points out drily that 'there are no proven health benefits compared to con-contact versions, as there are no proven cognitive performance benefits to being struck in the head.'

Teasdale TW, Engberg AW, Suicide after traumatic brain injury: a population study, J Neurol Neurosurg, Psychiatry 2001) jnnp.bmj.com/content/71/4/436.full
Schneider HJ et al, Hypothalamopituitary Dysfunction Following Traumatic Brain Injury and Aneurysmal Subarachnoid Haemorrhage: A Systematic Review, 2007, JAMA http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=208915