My brother has hidden my nephews rugby playing...

[touchrugby]

Asking for my brother - I think he’s in a mess and I need to tell him what to expect and how unreasonable he was. Interested to hear from other divorced parents and sports teachers/ school administrators. I’ve tried to give as much context as possible.

My brother got divorced 4 years ago. They have (had?) an amicable coparent relationship- there was no cheating or unkindness in either side. My brother just became obsessed with giving his family a good life and he worked a lot of hours. When he wasn’t working he was a very engaged parent- my nephew is hugely sporty and they were always off doing sports- swimming, tennis, football, cross country etc. Ex SIL was a SAHP but eventually got frustrated (with justification) at never seeing her husband so went back to work and divorced him. They share 50/50 custody with my brother as the higher earner paying all DNs expenses.

My brother really wanted nephew to go to this very nice private school. To facilitate this he pays all the fees. It’s a great academic school so ex SIL was pretty happy-except for the sport. They’re a big rugby school and she was adamant that DN not play rugby due to injury risks. There was a big argument about it, with my brother and DN really wanting rugby, and her adamant that he wouldn’t play.

The school offers non contact rugby and eventually they agreed DN would do that. DN is in year 9 now and it’s recently come out that he switched to full contact rugby in the 3rd week of year 7 and SIL didn’t know. It’s come out because he’s recently been made captain of the A team and a few mums congratulated her.

It seems he hated the non contact team. He’s very gifted with sport and apparently it was a team of lads who just wanted to run around for a few hours and throw a ball. The school put little effort into it and there were no matches. He asked to switch to “proper” rugby and the school said they needed a parent to approve it- and my brother did.

His argument is that his son wanted it, the school did email SIL as well, and it’s been 2.5 years.
Her argument is that he knew her stance, he also knows she’s a bit disorganised and rarely reads emails especially ones about sport which she know my brother manages (she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!) and that my brother conspired to hide it.

She has a very valid point about the conspiring. She has a new partner. He works Saturdays so my brother used to have DN every Friday night so they could see each other, and he’d then take him to Sat morning matches before dropping him at SILs Sat evening. Brother and DN have both, in 2.5 years, managed not to say anything to her about his rugby which is obviously duplicitous, especially considering how good he is. Brother just managed all the kit and the washing and the games and it apparently never came up in conversation.

Shes utterly furious and is going to the school Monday to tell them to remove him from rugby. Brother planning on going to the school to tell them to keep him in rugby. DN is apparently going to refuse to return to his mums house unless she agrees to the rugby and is determined to continue.

I’ve maintained a good friendship with SIL. In many ways I’m closer her than my brother as I see her more (he’s still a workaholic in his non parenting time so he’s hard to get hold of!) I heard about the odd match but nothing specific, I assumed it was non contact and frankly don’t know anything about rugby anyway. She’s very unhappy with our family as obviously our parents knew as well. My dad watches half the matches!

Does anyone know what the school might do? My brother and nephew are digging their heels in and saying he’ll live full time at my brothers and my brother will therefore get full parental responsibility. I think this is rubbish and not legal. I am worried that a nice coparenting relationship is ruined and that SIL might lose my nephew. He loves his mum but he’s obsessed with sport and apparently A team captain at a school like his is a BIG deal. He’s already playing some 2nd eleven matches as well which is also apparently important. I don’t know how to feel about what my brother did. He has absolutely supported what DN wanted. My nephew is so happy playing rugby and so good at it and still uninjured, and it’s the game played by 90% of the school. She knew sending him there that if he didn’t play rugby he’d be a bit isolated but she will not have it.

Frankly I think there’s fault on both sides, but on balance how much more unreasonable was my brother and what the hell might happen next?

He’s sounds like an absolute shit. He also sounds as if he wouldn’t want a kid with him full-time anyway so you probably don’t have to worry there.

continually mislead her for a prolonged period of time (given she said no contact rugby he has mislead her, no matter how you frame the nuances of the situation)
But OP said "DB said he spent a long time wondering if she'd read it and was just ignoring it and waiting for the other shoe to drop. When he heard nothing they just quietly carried on". They obviously expected her to speak up any minute and ... she never did. As others have said, even then it didn't come to light because of her engaging with her DS (talking, noticing bruises, noticing that touch rugby is not a thing at U14); it only surfaced because school-mums told her.

What Mahwa you say that?

*makes

A good parent would takes the child's wishes into consideration and if health and safety were really a concern wouldn't be taking them skiing.

And as has been pointed out the mother must have ignored a whole host of information not to know anything about her son playing rugby at school, especially at the the level to which he has risen.

I don’t actually think your brother is wrong. His son is a person with his own mind and he wants to play rugby.
Also that he has been playing for 2 and a half years and she has never once wanted to go watch!!!!! I find that really poor. I hate football, HATE it, yet I have gone and watched my nephews every now and then.
I do understand that she fears the injury risk but as I said he can choose for himself what he wants to do. I think your brother has done well for supporting him. It’s also not yours brothers fault that mum doesn’t check her emails. That’s on her.

She was sent an email. Saying that she didn't read it because she doesn't do the sport stuff is not much of a defence. If you see an email from your school, you read it!

Yep, Rugbytots was fantastic - taught DS to kick and pass well, absolutely zero contact. They only even got tags age 5.

I think in SILs position, I would give in and ok the rugby but add a condition that her DD had to pick another sport to get involved in. Nothing that involves blows to the head. Pick something he might prove to be good at. Tennis? Badminton? Marathons? 100 metres?

Mum is absolutely right to say no to contact sports in year 7.

What's happening now, is irrelevant!

Brother and son AND grandparents have LIED, been deceitful and broken trust.

Yes son might now be of an age to make some noise about autonomy but it wasn't redressed 3 weeks into year 7 was it.

He won't be gifted at much with a brain injury and chronic pain in 20 years time.

Everyone BUT mum, involved is in the wrong. She said no to contact rugby out of love, care, concern... not just to be spiteful or a killjoy. All that came after is despicable, gifted or not.

You'd be surprised how often bored journalists come here. Next time they are looking for an article on school boy concussion in rugby, that could be when this gets quoted.

Yes son might now be of an age to make some noise about autonomy but it wasn't redressed 3 weeks into year 7 was it.
No, because she was so "caring and concerned" that she ignored emails. Right from the start, when she should have been on high alert.
Everyone BUT mum, involved is in the wrong.
How do you work that out? She doesn't get a veto. Being such a controlling person has meant (only temporarily, hopefully) that she has alienated her son. Meanwhile, nothing that she catastrophised about has come to pass.

@Anameisaname - if the 14 year old is now playing for second eleven (as OP said) then that is presumably a higher agegroup - does that mean they are playing with the safety rules for older pupils?

if the 14 year old is now playing for second eleven (as OP said) then that is presumably a higher agegroup - does that mean they are playing with the safety rules for older pupils?
That's a big 'if'. The OP has said that she doesn't know much about rugby (as evidenced by her thinking that there are eleven players in a rugby team ). I'm not convinced about DN playing for the Seconds (you don't usually get a look-in until Y12). It seems highly unlikely and I think OP has got the wrong end of a stick somewhere.

He won't be gifted at much with a brain injury and chronic pain in 20 years time.

Oh give over! Yes, there can be serious long term consequences, but they aren't a given. I live in a rugby playing country and know many older men who played for years in their youth, back in the days when if you got concussion you were likely to be back playing the following week. None of them have any problems. Yes, there are risks, but there are risks with many everyday things we do - such as getting in a car.

Funny that SIL is fine with her son skiing!

I have two rugby playing children (U12s and U13s) who play for the school teams in their age groups and at a local club too. The younger one is especially talented and wants to play internationally (unlikely I know, but it’s good to have a dream!). My husband and I considered the risks carefully before allowing them to play, and decided that actually the changes that have already been made and are being made to rugby both at schoolboy level and at the highest levels of the game, are making it much safer. Like your DN, rugby is a huge part of their school life and now their out of school life too. Yes they do other sports but I can see them continuing with rugby long term and while I am concerned about injuries, I think not allowing them to play would really impact their happiness and school careers too. My grandfather played internationally and he died at the grand old age of 88 fully compos mentis, despite being a centre and always involved in the thick of the game. So yes there are risks, but so are there with many other sports - I skied and rode horses (both of which my children also do), and I can imagine how devastated I would have been if my mother had stopped me doing either of those sports which are equally as or more dangerous than rugby. Both sports are still a huge part of my life and I wouldn’t be the same person I am now without the formative experiences and many many happy memories i have had because of those sports.

the only issue in this for me is that your brother and DN lied by omission and that’s not a great thing to get your child to do. If I were you I would be encouraging your brother to really try to apologise for the lies and to show your SIL the improvements to the safety of the game, to help her see it from their viewpoint. If she tries to stop him playing he will just join a club outside of school, and she will lose him if she isn’t careful. Sport is more than ‘just sport’ to teenagers who have a passion for it, it is a part of their identity and to take it away isn’t fair or reasonable.

He's been doing it so long, is great at it and loves it. Sounds like she's gonna have to take the loss on this one. The only thing I'd be very upset about is the lying and hiding it but from the sound of it I can see why they did. I think they all need to sit down and talk properly before things escalate too far.

I just can't understand how she hasn't noticed - I come home from games covered in bruises, scratches and scrapes.
Anyway - SIL was being unreasonable - yes there are cases from of professional/international players for whom the issue was mainly from continuing to train and play despite possible concussions. We know better now and particularly at youth level the kids get incredibly annoyed at the protocol but my experience is that it is well enforced too.
Your brother should ideally have had a conversation with her but she would have said no and then what? They would have had to go even more directly against her wishes or your nephew would have resented giving up a (fantastic) sport he loves.

I completely agree with this.

Seems very strange that your SIL is so against it like this. Does she know someone who has been seriously injured or is she jealous that's it's something that Dad and son enjoy together. Why on earth wouldn't any Mum want their child to do something they love especially considering how good he is. Good for DN for pursuing it anyway.

BTW @touchrugby what does SIL think she will do when DN gets to university age and wants to play for the university team?

If he is academic and talented enough to maybe have the chance to be an OXFORD or CAMBRIDGE blue and she still says no way when he wants to play at Twickenham but has to decline because his Mum says no

What she should do is to allow her son to continue playing the sport he loves.

They have two yeses. The son and the dad. Those are the ones that are important.

Even if he lives full time with his Dad it DOES NOT MEAN that he has 100% PR and she has none. ShHe has PR because she is a parent and he can't change that. What needs to happen is like when there is an issue over Holidays - a specific court order over a specific matter - so Brother needs to go to court over a specific matter ie playing Rugby and get a Judge to rule on the matter. I don't agree with Brothers approach but I think his Mum is naive in the way this has been handled. And is ignorant about the way Rugby is managed. With good coaching risks are reduced, School will need RA in place to address issues, the higher level you play at the risk is reduced in terms of other players behaviours etc.

The risks in any sport are high in terms of injury. In terms of head and neck injury and long term effects for matters such as alzheimers and dementia it is a risk for more than just Rugby - does she want him wrapped up to prevent any injury - is he allowed to cross the street, ride a cycle etc - what will she do when he starts learning to drive?

Your brother seems to have sufficient funds he needs a solicitor nd to head of to court around a specific matter - listen to the solicitor, put some mitigating actions in place in terms of the risks of concern and move along. But yes SIL is risking loosing her son altogether over this and many would consider it unreasonable