My brother has hidden my nephews rugby playing...

[touchrugby]

Asking for my brother - I think he’s in a mess and I need to tell him what to expect and how unreasonable he was. Interested to hear from other divorced parents and sports teachers/ school administrators. I’ve tried to give as much context as possible.

My brother got divorced 4 years ago. They have (had?) an amicable coparent relationship- there was no cheating or unkindness in either side. My brother just became obsessed with giving his family a good life and he worked a lot of hours. When he wasn’t working he was a very engaged parent- my nephew is hugely sporty and they were always off doing sports- swimming, tennis, football, cross country etc. Ex SIL was a SAHP but eventually got frustrated (with justification) at never seeing her husband so went back to work and divorced him. They share 50/50 custody with my brother as the higher earner paying all DNs expenses.

My brother really wanted nephew to go to this very nice private school. To facilitate this he pays all the fees. It’s a great academic school so ex SIL was pretty happy-except for the sport. They’re a big rugby school and she was adamant that DN not play rugby due to injury risks. There was a big argument about it, with my brother and DN really wanting rugby, and her adamant that he wouldn’t play.

The school offers non contact rugby and eventually they agreed DN would do that. DN is in year 9 now and it’s recently come out that he switched to full contact rugby in the 3rd week of year 7 and SIL didn’t know. It’s come out because he’s recently been made captain of the A team and a few mums congratulated her.

It seems he hated the non contact team. He’s very gifted with sport and apparently it was a team of lads who just wanted to run around for a few hours and throw a ball. The school put little effort into it and there were no matches. He asked to switch to “proper” rugby and the school said they needed a parent to approve it- and my brother did.

His argument is that his son wanted it, the school did email SIL as well, and it’s been 2.5 years.
Her argument is that he knew her stance, he also knows she’s a bit disorganised and rarely reads emails especially ones about sport which she know my brother manages (she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!) and that my brother conspired to hide it.

She has a very valid point about the conspiring. She has a new partner. He works Saturdays so my brother used to have DN every Friday night so they could see each other, and he’d then take him to Sat morning matches before dropping him at SILs Sat evening. Brother and DN have both, in 2.5 years, managed not to say anything to her about his rugby which is obviously duplicitous, especially considering how good he is. Brother just managed all the kit and the washing and the games and it apparently never came up in conversation.

Shes utterly furious and is going to the school Monday to tell them to remove him from rugby. Brother planning on going to the school to tell them to keep him in rugby. DN is apparently going to refuse to return to his mums house unless she agrees to the rugby and is determined to continue.

I’ve maintained a good friendship with SIL. In many ways I’m closer her than my brother as I see her more (he’s still a workaholic in his non parenting time so he’s hard to get hold of!) I heard about the odd match but nothing specific, I assumed it was non contact and frankly don’t know anything about rugby anyway. She’s very unhappy with our family as obviously our parents knew as well. My dad watches half the matches!

Does anyone know what the school might do? My brother and nephew are digging their heels in and saying he’ll live full time at my brothers and my brother will therefore get full parental responsibility. I think this is rubbish and not legal. I am worried that a nice coparenting relationship is ruined and that SIL might lose my nephew. He loves his mum but he’s obsessed with sport and apparently A team captain at a school like his is a BIG deal. He’s already playing some 2nd eleven matches as well which is also apparently important. I don’t know how to feel about what my brother did. He has absolutely supported what DN wanted. My nephew is so happy playing rugby and so good at it and still uninjured, and it’s the game played by 90% of the school. She knew sending him there that if he didn’t play rugby he’d be a bit isolated but she will not have it.

Frankly I think there’s fault on both sides, but on balance how much more unreasonable was my brother and what the hell might happen next?

What sports does she allow?, as you can bet that someone has been seriously injured, or died, playing them.

Everything we do comes with some level of risk, that’s just life.

Mum needs to let it go.

He's been playing long enough without injury and he's achieved massive things in that time.

She should tell the school she withdraws the permission and that from now on they require two yeses. She should check her emails

I think your SIL is being really unreasonable. If he is a keen rugby player then of course he should play. Some risk is part of life and competitive rugby has lots of benefits. Practically speaking all she will do is cause her son upset and embarrassment at school. She needs to accept that he’s old enough now to handle it.

I think it’s your SIL that’s being unreasonable here.

If your DN wants to play rugby, that’s his decision. Good on your brother for being supportive of his son.

The lying isn’t great, but she kind of brought it on herself for being so intransigent.

i am so relieved my ds gave up rugby, but there is little hope of that happening here
unless of course the school specifically need her permission and she refuses to give it.

I don't think she has a choice unfortunately. Nephew is in year 9 so must be 13/14...he knows his own mind and will find a way to play it. If she does stop him he will be furious, it will damage their relationship, and he will pick it back up in 2 years anyway. No teen is going to step down from team captain because their mum said so. There are more dangerous sports (horse riding, cycling).

That's not to say I think your brother is right, he has created this situation, he was an idiot to think it wouldn't come out eventually and he has ruined his relationship with the other Co parent, which will massively affect his son for years to come, for the sake of a game. But going forward, being pragmatic, she has no choice really but to accept it and have a long conversation with her son about lying

You can't wrap children up in cotton wool, what will she do when he wants to go rock climbing or sailing. At his age I think it's his decision and she will just have to learn to live with the fact he is growing up and you have to start letting go a bit.

I understand why they didn't tell her and she's proved them right by her reaction. Why would you want to make your DS miserable at school?

If the son goes to live with his dad it doesn't mean his dad has full parental responsibility, that's still shared between mum and dad. The mum doesn't lose parental responsibility just because she isn't the resident parent.

We're all new to private schooling. She lives the academics and the music and the drama and basically ignored the sport because she's not interested and I don't think it clicked how big a part of school life it was. She's at his plays. The summer music festival. The science fair. She's a bit introverted so doesn't have a lot of school mum friends (and it's different at secondary) and there's a while separate rugby WhatsApp that she just never knew about

Oh the poor kid, they should let him play. Also, why does mum get to call all the shots here and just assume others will comply indefinitely.

Let the boy do what he wants
Rugby risks are known and are ameliorated as much as possible
SIL being selfish; your DB and school tried to contact her, she couldn't be bothered to read emails

Genuinely interested in this viewpoint- the boy is 13/14 he can refuse to go home to his mother. He has permission from his father.

How would you actually achieve this?

I would imagine the school would need to take into consideration the appearance of it coming out that a mother hadn't formally consented and objected to him playing - not great PR!

As a mother I would go to town and court for putting my child at risk. What on earth was your brother's idea if DS had been injured?

stay out of it op
your db was sneaky intentionally
but it is done now.

DS is tall, broad shouldered and fast, rugby would be a natural team sport for him and DH played when younger for a few years. Where we live the crowd that tend to play football are not really people I want him hanging around with, lots of trouble, fights amongst parents, lots of swearing at the children playing etc.

However I haven't sent him to rugby tots or similar because I am very concerned about the evidence in relation to head injuries, so I see where this boy's mother is coming from. Lots here saying let the 14 year old play whatever sport he likes, I wonder if so many would also apply this to boxing? I think it's doubtful, but rugby has a more middle class reputation so must be ok

The lies and deception would be a huge deal for me too, and the collusion from dad supporting son to lie to his mother.

The school emailed her. She doesn't bother reading her emails. She wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

If it wasn't rugby it could be skiing, riding, off road cycling, martial arts - I've seen participants stretchered away in all of the above when they get to a high level. She has to let him make his choices on risk though. There is a massive argument for protective gear in u18 rugby - all of the other risk sports mentioned above wear ppe, and so should rugby. I actually dissuaded my own ds from playing for that reason, and he shoots and skis, so I'm not a cotton wool parent.

This is very messy. Yes rugby can be dangerous, no two ways about it, but there have been a lot of changes to improve safety. A lot comes down to the mentality around it so previously, injuries on-field were brushed off (my own DS3 dislocated his jaw & no one bothered to properly check & realised what had happened) (I was pissed!!).

Your SIL best & fairest course of action is to talk to the school, get them to explain the measures they take to ensure safety regards to head injuries (that's truly where the danger lies). For her to attend a few games so she can see for herself & THEN judge if she feels comfortable. She needs to allow herself to be educated. She also needs to put this in perspective if she'd be comfy with skiing or horse riding which also carry a lot of risk.

She is wholly wrong to pull him out without doing the above.

Your brother is very wrong for lying & the above SHOULD have been done at the get go to address her (not entirely unreasonable) concerns.

Your nephew is 'in' now & sounds like he's bloody good, the resentment will be huge if she pulls him out.

I also do understand the worries about brain injury. My dad played rugby for years, then later worked as a PE teacher coaching rugby and football with regular heading the ball and getting knocked about in tackles on the rugby field. He died of dementia last year and we have spoken about the link between head injuries and dementia - he was concussed several times.

Having said that, the awareness of head injury is much better now and concussion is treated much more seriously by referees and coaches. Many players choose to wear helmets. None of my kids play rugby but I don't think you can ban it completely. Every sport has its risk of injury, things like gymnastics or skiing or swimming or even running can result in an injury.

Seriously, look at the evidence if brain damage from football, this is all beginning to come out. Fairly recently grass roots football was banned from heading drills.

When you look at the speed and force of a football coming towards a player - who then deliberately makes contact with their head, often whilst jumping, then you wonder why people are so willing to allow football and not rugby.

But the parent with equal parental responsibility (my brother) said yes. The school had no clue about the deception.
Why does she choose and not DB and what do you do in a situation where no compromise is possible?

She needs to speak to the school calmly and with an open mind and not go in all guns blazing

A school which is a "rugby school" should be very aware of the safety issues and teaching the children in the right way

Because it is a high risk sport, children have to be taught the relevant skills while they are young and don't have the strength/speed to cause much damage to each other. As they grow up and get stronger they will already have those skills embedded to play as safely as they can. This is why they teach contact rugby at a young age. It's not about letting children run at each other as hard as they can.

The other thing is impacts & there is a lot of research being done about that and how to minimise the effects. In children most high risk impacts happen in training, because they are still learning, in adults it happens in match scenarios because they are now much stronger. So you can see how the risk pattern changes as children age.

I'm not a huge fan of rugby, but I listen to a sports podcast a lot (science of sport) and Dr Ross Tucker is heavily involved in World Rugby and talks a lot about the safety issues and the latest developments and research.

I think she has to let it go tbh. Yes there's risk of injury, but i think the head injury risk would be more applicable to someone playing professionally.
I do think there's awareness of it in the game, so hopefully changes will be made (eg less substitutions) to ensure it's safer.

But there are risks with lots of sports as pp have said.

The only thing your brother can do is make it easy for SIL to do a u turn without seeming ridiculous. I'm not sure how you would do that but given the posturing about 100% custody etc I'm not sure your bro is as concerned with the relationship between his son and his son's mother as you are.

He should be, though. Whatever the situation with the rugby, the mother/son relationship needs to be mended for your nephew's future security and happiness.