My brother has hidden my nephews rugby playing...

[touchrugby]

Asking for my brother - I think he’s in a mess and I need to tell him what to expect and how unreasonable he was. Interested to hear from other divorced parents and sports teachers/ school administrators. I’ve tried to give as much context as possible.

My brother got divorced 4 years ago. They have (had?) an amicable coparent relationship- there was no cheating or unkindness in either side. My brother just became obsessed with giving his family a good life and he worked a lot of hours. When he wasn’t working he was a very engaged parent- my nephew is hugely sporty and they were always off doing sports- swimming, tennis, football, cross country etc. Ex SIL was a SAHP but eventually got frustrated (with justification) at never seeing her husband so went back to work and divorced him. They share 50/50 custody with my brother as the higher earner paying all DNs expenses.

My brother really wanted nephew to go to this very nice private school. To facilitate this he pays all the fees. It’s a great academic school so ex SIL was pretty happy-except for the sport. They’re a big rugby school and she was adamant that DN not play rugby due to injury risks. There was a big argument about it, with my brother and DN really wanting rugby, and her adamant that he wouldn’t play.

The school offers non contact rugby and eventually they agreed DN would do that. DN is in year 9 now and it’s recently come out that he switched to full contact rugby in the 3rd week of year 7 and SIL didn’t know. It’s come out because he’s recently been made captain of the A team and a few mums congratulated her.

It seems he hated the non contact team. He’s very gifted with sport and apparently it was a team of lads who just wanted to run around for a few hours and throw a ball. The school put little effort into it and there were no matches. He asked to switch to “proper” rugby and the school said they needed a parent to approve it- and my brother did.

His argument is that his son wanted it, the school did email SIL as well, and it’s been 2.5 years.
Her argument is that he knew her stance, he also knows she’s a bit disorganised and rarely reads emails especially ones about sport which she know my brother manages (she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!) and that my brother conspired to hide it.

She has a very valid point about the conspiring. She has a new partner. He works Saturdays so my brother used to have DN every Friday night so they could see each other, and he’d then take him to Sat morning matches before dropping him at SILs Sat evening. Brother and DN have both, in 2.5 years, managed not to say anything to her about his rugby which is obviously duplicitous, especially considering how good he is. Brother just managed all the kit and the washing and the games and it apparently never came up in conversation.

Shes utterly furious and is going to the school Monday to tell them to remove him from rugby. Brother planning on going to the school to tell them to keep him in rugby. DN is apparently going to refuse to return to his mums house unless she agrees to the rugby and is determined to continue.

I’ve maintained a good friendship with SIL. In many ways I’m closer her than my brother as I see her more (he’s still a workaholic in his non parenting time so he’s hard to get hold of!) I heard about the odd match but nothing specific, I assumed it was non contact and frankly don’t know anything about rugby anyway. She’s very unhappy with our family as obviously our parents knew as well. My dad watches half the matches!

Does anyone know what the school might do? My brother and nephew are digging their heels in and saying he’ll live full time at my brothers and my brother will therefore get full parental responsibility. I think this is rubbish and not legal. I am worried that a nice coparenting relationship is ruined and that SIL might lose my nephew. He loves his mum but he’s obsessed with sport and apparently A team captain at a school like his is a BIG deal. He’s already playing some 2nd eleven matches as well which is also apparently important. I don’t know how to feel about what my brother did. He has absolutely supported what DN wanted. My nephew is so happy playing rugby and so good at it and still uninjured, and it’s the game played by 90% of the school. She knew sending him there that if he didn’t play rugby he’d be a bit isolated but she will not have it.

Frankly I think there’s fault on both sides, but on balance how much more unreasonable was my brother and what the hell might happen next?

I think a court would look at all those years of never looking at emails or anything else she ever got from the school relating to rugby playing/ her own DS, and wonder if she was too 'scatty' to be put in charge of a hamster.

Skiing injuries are absolutely not confined to extremities.

Head injuries as well as spinal and neck injuries happen frequently. TBI is the leading cause of death in the winter sports population as a whole (various Alpine sports). Downhill skiers in particular tend to get concussions. Snow boarders get TBIs.

There’s nothing stopping the mother to apply for a court order and while the issue get resolved the pattern of contact is very likely to remain the same.

No kid under 16 will be allowed to decide freely where to live if the parents are in disagreement and prepared to fight their corner.

I have seen c”a case when a parent wanted to change just one day on a 50/50 contact agreement and that only took a few months and over £50,000 in solicitors fees.

If the parents stubbornly decide not to compromise at all, it can be very costly in terms of time and money and emotionally damaging enough to destroy everyone involved.

A friend of mine died following an epileptic seizure - his epilepsy was brought on by a head injury incurred during a school rugby match. I never wanted my son to play rugby for that and many other serious injuries which occur. However, it is not illegal, the same as riding a motorbike is not illegal and I wouldn't want him doing that either.
Unfortunately, I am not sure there is anything SIL can actually do if your brother allows it and he is one of the parents. I can see why she is livid and probably scared for her son. Your brother and nephew have both been duplicitous but I don't think she can do anything apart from appeal to them and the school and it sounds like the pair of them would not really be trustworthy anyway.
I can see why the nephew is upset but dad should not be facilitating him basically trying to force his mother to agree by threatening to move out.
It's a game played all over though so I suspect she is on a hiding to nothing.

By opening the email and reading it, perhaps?

@Goldbar

The school emailed her.

She had every chance to take part in any conversation she felt necessary about rugby.

Failure to open her emails is a big problem here. It's her problem though, not anyone else's.

I'm team SIL. Your DB clearly took the lead in terms of DS's sport when they were together, so I don't think it's weird that continued once they'd split. Both parents don't have to be all over everything.

She made her stance on contact rugby crystal clear, and it was something she felt very strongly about. DB has been a poor coparent and a poor father by not discussing this with SIL and clearly telling DS to lie. For YEARS. That's outrageous. And way worse than missing some emails. He's betrayed her and let his son down.

On the flip side, SIL could be more open minded about trying to understand her DS's passion and skill. But the years of lying is only going to make it LESS likely for all parties to move to a consensus.

Ok this makes her the unreasonable one, for sure

If she was completely risk averse and just wrapped DN in cotton wool and just wanted him to play tiddle winks then I could understand her POV

But just because SHE likes skiing she thinks it is perfectly ok for him to ski BUT DB likes rugby and she thinks it is too dangerous for DN to play

What if DB didn't agree with his son skiing then what would she have said about that?

Her passion is skiing so she thinks ok for him to ski and DB passion is rugby so he thinks it is ok for him to do that too

Both 50/50 parenting

Please make sure he is only paying with boys the same age as him though, not the 6th formers in 2nd XV.

Also, not school fault as she should have read the emails from the school and objected 2 years ago

We had a school ski trip when I was in year 9, one of the girls died after hitting her head on a rock.

Your SIL has obviously done her research about Rugby so maybe suggest she do the same about skiing, especially when it comes to injuries in children because she’s being a complete hypocrite here just because it happens to align with her own interests.

What if the 14 year old child leaves the mother and refuses to go back? Are you saying that, in the UK, this boy would be picked up by the police and taken from his mum’s house to his dad’s house? Every time?

if a 14 year old is refusing to live with one parent and wants to live with the other, why would a court insist otherwise?

Yes, I have seen it happening, very much in the UK. It is ilegal though as this would be a civil matter so police should not intervene but I have seen it happening to a parent whose child wanted to stay with them.

The parent put a formal complaint to the police and got an apology. The judge, however threatened that parent with 6m in jail if the kid returned to them and they allowed them to stay.

It is all quite fucked up really, I hope both of them come to their senses to avoid making a minefield of that poor child’s life.

I’m of the mind that Dad wants to support the son, Mum wants to control the son.

I don’t see this ending well between mother and son.

Both Sonny Bono and Natasha Richardson died tragically in skiing accidents.
Just in case anyone forgot.

did that happen where there was no formal court mandated access arrangement though? And with a 14 year old?

Because it’s not illegal for a 14 year old to live his dad. Unless there’s a court order mandating otherwise, that will require going to court to change

I don't know why women think they have the final say in things. They don't. The kid tried non contact rugby and didn't like it. Mum was emailed about the change to contact rugby. By not saying anything, a reasonable assumption could be that she's accepted it but don't poke the bear by rubbing it in her face and risk her reconsidering. Which is what dad and kid did. They went about it quietly.

The dad also has PR and the school only needs one signature.

What is SIL going to do when your nephew wants to learn to drive? There are always risks in everday life, you can't hide from them all. Yes, rugby can lead to serious injuries but so can most sports. She can't wrap him in cotton wool. Playing rugby at school is not the same as playing internationally, and the risks are know now and rules changed. Your SIL is going to lose her son if she makes a big deal of this. Even if she got her way, what is to stop him playing when he leaves school?

As the parent of a teenage DS who plays a lot of sport, I am astounded that in 2.5 yrs he’s never had a single visible injury that would make you query what level he was actually playing at.

I agree with her stance on rugby. I don’t allow my DS to play either. Rugby can cause the kind of catastrophic injury that there is no coming back from, and we are only now seeing the toll that head knocks can have on the brain. However with that in mind I wouldn’t allow my very sporty child to attend a big rugby school. DS attends a school that plays rugby and was invited to join as he is naturally coordinated. But they offer many sports and he is satisfied with playing football and cricket. I would also never issue an ultimatum and then completely check out of any interest or involvement in DS’s sporting participation. That is poor parenting on her part and she needs to own that.

Your brother has been an extremely bad role model for his DS, teaching him to lie to get what he wants. I think they should both be apologising to the mum.

But now she has to deal in the reality, which is that any effort on her part to stop him playing is going to damage their relationship.

At this age if the child refused to return to his mother's home and dad was able and willing to care for him, then there is little anybody could do to make him return, no court is going to agree to physically removing a child of his age from a parent whom he has an established relationship. Police will not get involved unless the child is at risk of harm.
By the time this gets to court he would be so imbedded in a life with dad and justification that mum is wrong for her views then his wishes and feelings would be priority and there would be no way that he would be ordered to return to mums care against his wishes, the expectation would be that dad encouraged and supported a relationship between them. This doesn't need to get to that stage, parents need to sit down with their son and discuss the situation, what led them to this and how they can resolve it - its no longer a case of who's right or wrong, this is about moving forward with the sons whom they both love best interests at heart. Court is messy, expensive and extremely damaging emotionally to parents and child and by the time its over he will be approaching 16 and that makes any decision the court makes pointless.

Not sure of who is right or wrong but buy him the absolute best headgear you can afford and go to the matches to make sure he is wearing it. Some kids won't be wearing it, some will. They soon get used to it. Also, unless he is going to be playing through uni and beyond ( that is a very small group) he would be unlucky to have a problem. The school should be doing weight groups as well. Not age. Personally I'm more terrified of skiing. People kill themselves regularly doing that, same with motor sports, horse-riding, boxing, water-skiing, cycling on roads etc. Driving to shool is far more dangerous though of course.

I had a family member die by slipping on a curb and hitting his head. You can't shield yourself or your loved ones from any and all risk. Being in a car, even as a passenger, is far, far more risky then rugby or skiing. My mother was a bit overprotective of me as a child, so I just became really good at hiding my risk taking behavior. And then when I became an adult I openly flaunted it. Mind you this was early 2000s so things were a bit different.

Not forgetting Micheal Schumacher, he has never been seen again his injuries from skiing accident were so catastrophic.

True. But there still doesn’t seem to be a link between skiing and dementia.

whether we agree with the SIL is ultimately irrelevant, tbh.
they had a division of labour and she believed them to have come to an agreement about the rugby.

the father (and son) clearly wanted to keep their little charade going and encouraged her to believe that she was right about that. He basically abused her trust in their co-parenting relationship.

100%

The worst thing about all of this is that the father colluded with his son in deceiving the mother. He has demonstrated to the son that this is an ok way to behave. He';ll grow up being another one of those who believes that 'everybody lies' and that this means it is ok.

Whatever the outcome, the father needs to sincerely apologise to his ex wife for the deception and push his son to do the same.

I actually think his main concern now should be repairing the coparenting trust - and that means telling his son that no, under no circumstances will he be spending 100% of his time away from his mother, and that the 50/50 will stay in place.

He's been undermining his son's mother for all those years of rugby, so now he needs to start changing that.