To feel sorry for Shamima Begum?

[EWAS]

I do, I’m afraid. I think she should be able to come home. She was 15! Have any men been stripped of their citizenship that we know about?

I remember seeing the footage of her and her friends in the airport, leaving the country. Why it was even allowed for 3 unaccompanied minors to board a plane to go to Syria I'll never no

@Newchapterbeckons Shamima Begum was a citizen of this country, who had a right to safety. She did not get that. She was a child, in school, groomed, following another pupil of that school and, I think there is some suggestion in the BBC podcast, with the knowledge of the authorities.

I think she is a very traumatised person. I don't think you can apply 'normal' rules about body language and remorse to someone that is likely to be suffering from severe PTSD. She should be detained, treated and rehabilitated in this country as a citizen of Britain.

Couldn't agree more. The question isn't does she deserve it, is she a baddie, can a fifteen year old make a mistake, is she really a threat. We're not making murderers and rapists stateless as punishment for their crime.

The point is that it should not be permitted to make someone stateless. She was born here, this is her only nationality. Citizenship should be a birthright, like it is in the States. If she's just a threat then escort her off the flight straight into custody to await trial.

I do feel sorry for her though. I think she's a victim and she's suffered so much.

The colour of her skin is totally irrelevant- it is her actions!! Fgs. I can’t imagine a country that would be swifter in riding to her rescue if there was a hint that she was genuinely in trouble, and had been genuinely kidnapped and forced to stay. That was the whole point of a team of SA arriving into Syria to work out what happened.

But most of us know we are being manipulated and played.

Being British means valuing life. It boils down to that. Our heritage is largely irrelevant.

Most of us know this, EasternStandard, but for some it seems to have become a case of "If I say it's illegal often enough it'll make it so"

A bit odd really

She was born in Britain, raised in Britain, and radicalised in Britain. Like it or not she is a British problem.

I do feel for her in that she was groomed at 15. She was a child when she left but I don't think she should be allowed back to live freely. I think she should be charged and tried for her crimes or at the very least very closely supervised for the rest of her life.

What a racist post. Go you.

Her parents are there.

They got a flight to Turkey and then were smuggled into Syria.

I'm sure the flights to Turkey must have been watched at the time though and it shouldn't have been allowed to happen either way.

They didn't go to Syria. They went to Turkey. As long as their papers were in order there was no need for the airline to prevent them from boarding.

I don’t feel sorry for her. I don’t believe she regrets what she did, I think she only wants to come back because life with her family in the UK is far more comfortable than living in a tent in a camp and I don’t think her being allowed to return will make the UK any safer.

Having said that, I don’t see what the difference is between her and any of the males who have done similar or worse and have since returned to the UK expecting everyone to just forget what they did and let them live out the rest of their lives in privacy.

Agreed. I’m a naturalised British citizen and since this law came about I’ve gone from a proud Brit to not really giving a shit anymore.

If Britain has no loyalty to me then why should I have loyalty to it?

I will abide by the laws but beyond that British ‘values’ can get to fuck.

Is Isis a state actor? No. Is Britain at war with Isis ? No.

There again , people who went to Syria to fight against isis have been arrested upon their return. It's all a total mess.

And while I agree that everyone has a right to safety my point is that these evil people use/manipulate these actions to support their claims.

she was born and raised in the UK

undoubtedly this will be used by terrorists to say

• you were born in the uk but you are still not welcome because of your heritage
• not even your home country cares because of your religion/ethnicity etc
• they are evil racists who hate our way of life and the things that make you who you are
• etc etc etc
• would the same have happened for a white girl

I just think it’s scary that undoubtedly her circumstances will be used to recruit more people to Islamic terrorist organisations… and I can see why already vulnerable/lonely/desperate young people from certain backgrounds would buy it

it’s scary that our actions can be used to support their arguments (rightly or wrongly)

She lived in England but like a lot of her mother’s family she’s Bangladeshi too. Many of my fam are also dual nationals.
You can strip citizenship from anyone who’s dual cos they’ve got another country of abode.

All cultures value human life and none values execution of civilians. It’s the valuing that matters, not the culture. It’s the upholding of values that really matters and that’s why Bangladesh doesn’t want her either.

She’s still classified as a threat.

Totally shameful and unprincipled behaviour by our Government. Makes me ashamed to be British. Wtf. Cowrds ducking the issue for votes.
Hopefully her team will take it higher to the next court and win. It's just a case of the Tories wanting to be seen to be having their hands tied so as to pander to DM readers.
Hey sheeple....

I think she was a victim. I don't mean to be horrible, but she often comes across as not terribly smart. I didn't do anything like that at 15 but I'm sure I believed some stupid things. There but for the grace of god...

Her children died. What worse punishment could there be.

She should be brought back.

I work in mental health and I am not seeing a typical PTSD reaction at all, although disassociation should not be ruled out. You seem to be searching for a way to understand her, without truly appreciating her values are so different to yours.
However, there is no evidence to suggest she was groomed or forced overseas, she willingly flew there. Willingly remained there for many years despite being offered escape route multiple times. Including the secret services.

You are underestimating the impact and the risk of a British role model welcomed back, one that appears to be glorifying murder and beheadings. You clearly have never been involved in a terrorist incident in the U.K. and appear to have very little comprehension of the horror and carnage. Perhaps research the PTSD and trauma of the innocent people involved in the ISIS inspired horrors in Manchester or London.

The hand wringing on here makes me terrified of a Labour government.

Her children died. What worse punishment could there be.

She said she's not sad about that anymore.

Totally agree with you OP. We are forgetting that she was a child at the time. Which meant the UK failed to safeguard her from being radicalised. This also holds the UK responsible for the deaths of her three children. The situation is shocking.

I feel awful for her. It’s quite obvious she’s been groomed

@Newchapterbeckons worth sacrificing her then? Your scenario is a maybe. She wouldn't be 'welcomed' back, but prosecuted under our justice system.

I think it's messed up. She was groomed at 15, trafficked out (with the involvement of an undercover Canadian spy), and married off to a random ISIS fighter and turned into a baby machine. We have quite large numbers of actual ISIS fighters back here in the UK, and many of them free and at large.

Shamima Begum doesn't seem like a particularly nice person, but her supposed crimes (stitching bombs into vests) are all hearsay. It's even been seen as proof of her evil that she can't think about the fact that her three children died, instead of what it more likely is, trauma.

It's a bad thing for all of us that the UK government has illegally made her stateless. Even worse that they've done it to impress the section of the population who think reading Daily Mail headlines makes them well informed. If we don't protest things like this, eventually they will start to happen to people we haven't turned into caricatures. But precedent will be set.

Yes very happy to leave her in Syria, yes absolutely.

Of course she would cash in on her return. I have no interest in rewarding people like her. Consequences. There are consequences to terrible actions.

The U.K. sent an entire team to bring the girls back! Do you remember that? They were not interested!