To ask a parent to drop out of a trip?

[RadicalRadishes]

My DD’s class goes on school trips quite frequently and it’s pretty much the same ~4 parents every time. I’m usually not available, but the one time I was it was full by the time I messaged the office to volunteer.

I just found out there is a school trip on DD’s birthday. DH checked he could rearrange his schedule to attend but now is being told all the parent slots are full.

Would it be reasonable in the class WhatsApp group to ask if one of the regular attendees would be willing to give up their spot for him?

A few years ago we had a parent of twins come to help as one twin was recently diagnosed with autism and was finding school hard. We were late for the bus on the way home as one twin was bought an ice lolly, while other twin and the rest of the group of 6 yr olds that she was supposed to be with sobbed in confusion. Child then got on bus with lolly setting off another autistic child who had a massive meltdown and screamed the whole way home. Was horrendous! Parent will never be invited on a trip again!

We were never allowed to have our own DC in our group and also it’s bloody hard work. I had two naughty ones in my group on one trip that kept trying to jump in the lake.

I'm a teacher.
I take the same 4 parents on every trip.
Parent 1: Child is a flight risk, if mum doesn't come he can't.
Parent 2: Child has physical disabilities and needs to be accompanied in toilet and PEG fed.
Parent 3: Child has epilepsy, whilst this could be managed by staff, it would need to be in addition to numbers in case of hospital trip being needed.
Parent 4: Child has severe anxiety, will not enter unfamiliar place without parent.

I still send a general message to everyone requesting volunteers but I know who I will take regardless of response.

When my DCs were at primary I often went on trips - all year groups, not just my DCs class. This was because I was DBS checked, a qualified first aider and they knew I was reliable and could follow instructions. I NEVER had my own child in my group and wouldn’t have wanted to.
I now work in school and anyone accompanying our trips has to be DBS checked (Any adult alone with children should be) and we don’t put anyone with their own children.
Accompanying a school trip is NOT a jolly and seeing it as a way to spend time with a child for their birthday is a bit of a red flag TBH.
Edited to add that where certain special needs are involved then it could be different but the that parent wouldn’t have a group and would instead be in another adult’s group but responsible for dealing with their child’s special needs.

No harm in asking!

Don’t be silly, of course it happens! If it never happened, no school would ever have felt the need to put partners in a different group to their own child, but clearly they often do.

Do not be afraid - people w/o DBS checks can still go on school trips now and again.

Reception, year 1 & year 2: Tend to stick close by to you but need more general help. Liable to forget belongings and need the toilet randomly.
Year 3 & y4: The most nerve wracking groups imo. old enough to have more confidence, but not old enough to be allowed too far from you. So you have to keep a close eye in 6 places at once to ensure they don't wander off.
Year 5& 6: Not so needy, and can be given more rein, but some can get over confident / stop listening.

All years will have DC who seem unable to walk in a straight line, want to walk on any grass you are going vaguely near, go up on steps you are passing etc etc.

All years have children who can get tired and emotional and need extra support.

All years need on topic interaction to help them get most out of the learning from the trip.

(I keep thinking I should go back to Stonehenge to see the 'new' visitor centre again without y4s as I definitely didn't get to look at it properly myself.)

The all-school theatre trip by train to the pantomime at a local theatre was an experience too from the travel / herding point of view. Plus they were given 3D glasses for the show so they got lost / dropped / broken etc etc. Such fun. (I was asked on the day to accompany - no such thing as a free theatre trip!)

It’s good these ppl want to volunteer but they can’t hog ALL the school trips, that isn’t fair.

It’s not about fair, it’s about being able to run a school trip as safely and smoothly as possible. Fairness is irrelevant.

Really? Things have changed since my kids were at primary school then, not that long ago. That's quite concerning really. How do they get around being left alone with the children? Surely having DBS is still best practice?

This isn't quite the same as regular parent helpers, is it?
It sounds like these parents are needed as more one-to-ones for specific children and thus not readily available for the herding cats element of a school trip.

Why can't you be open and honest about why you need to take these 4 parents? I'd be a bit miffed to organise potential time off only to find out that I had 0% chance of being asked.
Can those children still go if their parents don't accompany them?

Me too. And on one memorable trip, as she was seen as one of the sensible ones, she was paired up with a less sensible child and I was called to stop them disrobing in the sandpit. So don't assume you will be spending quality bonding time with your child!

I think they are NEVER actually alone with any child.
My youngest in 14 and when I helped on trips I was never, ever alone with any of the children.
Helped with swimming, but wasn't allowed to help the girls with long hair get their hats on, told that if a kid fell in I wasn't allowed to jump in and save them (I would have, and taken the consequences).

APART FROM......
The most ridiculous thing was that they were happy for me to drive kids to sport events in my car though.

I have 🤣

My point was you don't know why those volunteers are regular volunteers. Yes they are supernumerary, there are however no rules on how many adults are required only guidance and in reality the herding cats is done by school staff.

We do not share the reasons as the children have a right to privacy. Some things are confidential.

The email we send out as a school says something like, we will need volunteers, if you would potentially be available please contact us, should we get more volunteers than required parents with experience and DBS will be considered first followed by parents with DBS. Parents without DBS will be considered if necessary.
If you wish to get DBS checked by school to be considered in future please contact the office.

How are those parents not 121s tho? If you give Parent 3 four kids and her kid has a fit, the ratios will be out unless she's there purely for him. Who would have the other three? Etc.

In our school I always go as DS' 121 although will help out with general coralling, loo duties etc. one child with autism always has one of their adults with them, 121. Another child has epilepsy, Mom comes 121. None of us have other kids. THEN they divide the kids left into groups and work out how many EXTRA parents they need

I was young. I think my Dad promised me £20 for each one. All things which would not be the case nowadays. 😂
But, I did learn about some prehistoric cave paintings, a medieval castle, and an animal park, all in the same week. Even if I was stopping children yeeting themselves off battlements (to see the William Wallace/Mel Gibson statue), climbing in beside the monkeys, and being left behind in a cave which is only accessible at low tide.
(That combo might give away where I grew up!!)

So have you never looked after other kids alongside of your own? Occasionally we walk each others kids home etc. I'm MORE vigilant with other people's kids. I've never seen a parent ignore the other kids in their groups or let them get lost etc because they're so focused on their own kid. Obv it happens but I don't think it's the norm and we've ALWAYS had our own kid and then usually a couple of kids they're close to

Sorry but why should your Dh ‘need’ to go on a trip that has been arranged and volunteers sorted just because you/he wants to be with your DD on her birthday

I volunteer quite a bit and volunteer for the more boring ones harvest festival) and hard work ones (full days out) so I can help too with the more interesting ones (theatre trips) so I wouldn't want to swap if it was a fun one or if I'd already told my children but would happily swap a harder work one!! I get put with my children and don't ignore the others!!

I'm a beaver leader and we definitely pick the parents we want to come on trips - even if we tell them it's names in a hat! Some parents are a massive PITA so we refuse to have them with us.

At DSs school we used to be in the group with our child. I always used to get the naughty twins though .

Drives me nuts when parents who don’t help with anything else want to come on school trips as they think it’s a ‘jolly ‘!
I’ve helped with swimming lessons in a year my children are not in as there is no volunteers ever for that or school fairs etc. No problems with school trips .

Also had parents handing out chocolate biscuits and taking their group into the shop to buy them souvenirs . As a teacher you just want to take the most helpful parents as trips are certainly not just a fun day out !

Assuming he has a current dbs, ie satisfies the criteria to attend, I think there is no issue with asking on the WhatsApp.

Of course parents don't choose and swap volunteers!!

It's up to the teachers.

They choose the ones who are capable of doing it!

Capable of actually looking after a group of children rather than going on a jolly birthday trip with their own child.

And that's why parent volunteers should be praised and everyone else should be very very grateful for them doing an unpaid role to help all children.