To be upset with partner over this?

[upsetandangrywithhim]

Partner is adamant he doesn't want another baby (for context we have a 2 year old). I'd love another. We are on different pages about this.

However, I am not on any form of contraception because hormonal contraceptives cause awful side effects for me and I've never found one that suited. So after the birth of our child I wanted a break from the pill, and partner was on board with this saying we'd use condoms. However, over the past 12 months alone he has had unprotected sex with me on 18 occasions (the rest being with a condom). I know this because I use an app to track my periods and you can record sex and whether protected or not (presumably to track and date any pregnancies). So he is obviously really lax about this, despite saying he's adamant it's a no.

I've raised the conversation again this past week about his thoughts on another baby, and he says the same "absolutely not". I point out to him the contradiction in his actions and his words. His defence is "I always ask you what point you're at in your cycle so I make sure the timing makes it unlikely" and "I pull out sometimes so it's fine". I asked him if he understood that he's giving me mixed messages by saying one thing and doing another? He said "I have no explanation for that other than I prefer sex without a condom because it feels better". I said OK but you surely then accept the risk that comes with? He just shrugged, repeating he was reassured by the point I was at in my cycle.

OK, he may have a point, in that we've had unprotected sex at "safer" points in my cycle 18 times over the past 12 months and I'm not pregnant. But, there is some risk still, and if he's so adamant he's against having another baby, why would he take that risk even if it was a tiny one?? He can't answer this.

He then deflected onto me and said "you're happy to take that risk too". Well yes, because I'm not horrified at the thought of another baby or massively opposed to it, as you say you are? If I were, I'd not be letting you anywhere near me without a condom.

My head is a mess, and I feel he's confused and upset me a lot with this.

AIBU?

Are you suggesting she has no option other than to bring a child into the world?

Don't be ridiculous.

At the end of the day, when your child asks you why they were brought into the world and why they have a dad that doesn't love them, you can explain that you gave up because he risked it 18 times so you thought it wasn't worth putting your foot down and you let yourself get pregnant knowing that their dad would not love them.

It's your fault and your decision as much as your partner's to bring a child into the world, and you have control over it.

All of the consequences of that decision are on you, as much as they are on him.

You're both selfish.

Neither of you should be bringing a child into the world knowing that they will not be loved or wanted by their father.

If he’s so certain he should schedule a vasectomy.

Um no - but the other option (seeing as contraception seems to be off the table for both parties) seems to be her abstaining from sex, and it seems very unfair that she somehow is being irresponsible if she doesn't do this.

My point, which I don't think is that hard to grasp, is why is OP responsible for preventing something she wants to happen, when her partner (who doesn't want it to happen) isn't apparently bothered enough to do so?

I do understand the fact that we are talking about a whole new human being potentially being involved, but it seems wrong that OP has to take action to prevent something she wants just because another adult can't be arsed!

That said, I do think saying "if you're so adamant you don't want DC, get the snip or wear condoms or no sex for you" would be an interesting way of finding out how strongly the man actually feels!!

Maybe he has already had a vasectomy and hasn’t told you?

Sorry if it’s already been mentioned, I’ve not read full thread.

I agree with @HollyKnight and @LoveFood. I don't think the signals are mixed at all. He's just expecting things to work out fine, and will put the "blame" at your door if they don't.

I thought of another analogy which might help explain why I don't think the signals are mixed, and why he's just focussed on his pleasure.

Bear with me on this as it will seem a bit left-field at first!

We all know that sex with strangers carries a risk of STIs, and in particular HIV. So it's strongly advisable to use a condom for casual sex. And yet, there are many, many men who don't bother with condoms for casual sex/one night stands.

Do you think they are giving out mixed messages? Do you think they secretly want to catch HIV?

Or do you think it's just because they're not really thinking about the risk, and just focussing on the fact they want to have sex?

I think we can all agree that no one wants to catch an STI! And yet some men (and women) continue to have unprotected sex. Why? Because it brings them pleasure, and they push the risk to the back of their mind.

Can you see the analogy there OP? We wouldn't be suggesting that not using a condom for casual sex meant that secretly people wanted to catch HIV or another STI. So I don't think that your DP continuing to have sex during your "safe" parts of the cycle indicates that he actually does want to have another baby when he's been very clear that's not the case. He just wants to continue to have the kind of sex that feels the best - no condom - and doesn't want to think about the small but undeniable risk he's taking. Just like the blokes who have a one night stand without wearing a condom!

My honest viewpoint is that you don't have the right to resent him for not wanting another baby. In the same way as he doesn't have the right to resent you because you DO want another one. Having a baby is a very big deal, and it's probably the one issue that's hard to find a compromise with. Neither of you are unreasonable in how you feel about future babies. But I think he's been very clear about what he wants. I also think that because you're feeling broody, you're trying to look for any sign that he doesn't mean what he said. No judgement from me, the ovary urges are incredibly powerful!! But I really don't think the fact that he's continued to have sex with you is any kind of secret message that he does want another child.

From what you've said, things might work out OK if you accidentally fell pregnant. But only you know if he's likely to hold a grudge and have digs at you for years about "your" failure to not fall pregnant!

I hope none of this sounds antagonistic OP as it's not intended that way. Trying to agree whether to have a baby is a really difficult obstacle to navigate when the two parties don't see things the same way.

I don't think it's fair resenting him for "mixed messages" when he's been clear. But I do think it's unreasonable for him not to be better informed about the risk and not to have a proper conversation with you about the level of risk you're taking. Preventing pregnancies is a joint responsibility - you know the risks as you've made sure you're well-informed. He will have no right to complain if you fall pregnant.

I can't tell if you are serious or not.

But if you are - the reason OP is responsible is because we are talking about a child being brought into the world, which is a pretty big thing.

You could even that the potential child's needs should actually outweigh 'something OP wants to happen'.

I don't think that's hard to grasp.

OP, you’re definitely getting a bashing on here and I’m sorry about that. Viewed dispassionately, though (although I can see it might feel differently to you — the same way as it does when a friend, for example, can’t see quite how bad a relationship is, because they’re in the middle of it, and can’t take a step back, but everyone else can see it as clear as day), it doesn’t seem as though he is giving mixed messages. Yes, his actions belie his words — but I think you’re reading too much into that. You’re seeing it as having unprotected sex = him being prepared to risk an unplanned pregnancy = he can’t be that adamant about not having another baby. From the outside, though, he just looks like a stereotypical bloke, thinking with his dick and nothing else. I suspect he’s not remotely thinking about the risk of pregnancy at that moment — just what feels better for him, which is having sex without a condom.

Where you go from here is a whole other question, of course…

Yes but if a man doesn’t want a child brought into the word it’s on him to make sure it doesn’t happen. He has several options and is still choosing to have unprotected sex. Two adults of opposing sexes having unprotected sex have to accept that there is a possibility of making a baby, if one of them isn’t on board with that, they have to take one of the very broad options available to them to self protect themselves from being a parent in 9 months.

It's "on" both of them. It's within both of their power to prevent a child being brought into the world.

Just because he is behaving irresponsibly (which I don't dispute), doesn't mean that she also should.

Because the fallout of that is that a child is brought into the world who is not loved by its father.

OP is putting her own selfish desires above the needs of this potential future child.

Him saying he would love and care for another child, stay in the relationship etc means nothing. because it hasn’t happened Why would he say ‘well actually if you get pregnant and don’t abort I will leave’

What would be the consequences of that? It won’t be good for him will it. One possibility is that you won’t have sex with him or have unprotected sex with him.

Him saying that won’t stop him trying to get you to abort the baby, won’t stop him throwing it back at you when it suits, won’t stop the child growing up knowing their dad slightly resents them or him deciding to eventually leave.

Men who have unprotected sex aren’t always trying for children. Obviously it’s always a possible consequence. But that’s not how they view it.

Just because a man has unprotected sex with you doesn’t mean they have changed their mind and want a child.

Anyone saying they would be fine with a hypothetical situation they would prefer not to be, can promise how they will react.

and a man that’s quite selfish, isn’t going to tell his current partner that he would react badly, want an abortion, treat the kids differently if she got pregnant.

Thought I would update after the conversation I've just had with him.

He is now saying that, on reflection, he clearly cannot feel as strongly about this as he initially thought, and that maybe he's more in the "if it happens it happens" camp than he'd realised, because as I've "rightly pointed out" (his words), he's been very lax about contraception. He also apologised for the mixed messages.

He said that whilst he doesn't actively want a baby, if I were to become pregnant, so be it, and we'd make it work. He assured me he would stand by me and support me and love the baby no differently to our existing child.

I said it may all be a moot point anyway as at my age I may struggle to fall pregnant at all, even with accurate timing. He said (exact quote): "you never know, you might fall pregnant more easily than you think".

That was the end of the conversation.

So it seems he has reflected on his initial stance and revised it somewhat, saying perhaps he wasn't as strongly opposed as he originally claimed to be, and therefore he'd support me if I became pregnant but he's not actively wanting to hoping for that outcome.

I'm not sure if I'm any further forward?

Presumably he still doesn't want a vasectomy though?

The ‘child’ is imaginary and unlikely to come to be. There is a possibility of a baby, but that possibility (as minimal as it is) completely falls on the man in this scenario. He doesn’t want a baby and yet is not only not taking active care for it not to happen, he’s taking active action for it to happen. Therefore it is completely on him. The op has already been clear and honest with him, that’s her doing her bit in this. It’s up to him how to move forward with the information given to him, and he’s decided to play roulette in order to have a few minutes of unprotected sex.

I feel you’re one of these people who thinks it’s a woman’s job to make up for men’s shortcomings and feckless behaviours. What do you suggest the op do to rectify the situation? Because the options are take medication that doesn’t agree with her, have a serious and very likely irreversible sterilisation or not have sex with her partner.

You’re playing a dangerous game with this twat.

He wears a condom, he gets a vasectomy or he doesn’t have sex with you, those are his options. Why isn’t his twatery an effective form of non hormonal contraception already?

That more of an ambiguous situation than before.

Before he didn’t want a baby. But was happy to have unprotected sex when he could.

Now he might be ok if you get pregnant. Might be. and he can carry on having unprotected sex and you don’t know how he will feel if you got pregnant

He's told you he doesnt want another child. & you're not listening. You need to actually listen, and decide whether this is a dealbreaker for you or not. All this stuff about no condom, your fertility cycle etc is just an unnecessary red herring. Ask him to have a vasectomy, I'm pretty sure his answer will clear your mind more. But if he says 'Yes ok' you're back to square 1 anyway aren't you.

Believe actions not words. That the s how you will come to understand this person.

Honestly that sounds great. I would just carry on as you are. Maybe you'll have another baby. Maybe you wont. Either way it doesn't need to be a big issue in your relationship anymore 🙂

OK. Yes you are right to be confused and angry with him for his "mixed" messages. There. That answers your original post. So why is this going on for 10 pages? You just get snippy when people give you their opinions.

@Universalsnail
Yes that's my thinking. If it happens it happens.

Your last line made me laugh 😂
I needed that. Thank you.

Man, this guy is really, really good at getting bare-back sex. It’s crystal clear that’s all he cares about.

@AgentJohnson’s line is very amusing, but it’s quite frankly all I could think about the entire way through this thread…..

Good luck to you, OP.

But in my opinion, whilst it's not ideal, a child's needs can be fully met by having one parent who wants them desperately and loves them dearly. Is it preferred? No, I'd say two parents on board is better! But do I think all the kids out there who, for whatever reason, only have one loving involved parent are not having their needs met? No, I do not.

For me, it's a bit like saying that someone with an inherited illness would be irresponsible to have children because the child could end up disadvantaged if they also inherit the illness. Yes, it's not necessarily going to end up in the most perfect idealised situation, but does that mean the child is better off not existing at all? Not for me, no.

How about women who have kids through sperms donation? Are they inherently irresponsible because the child won't even have a father?