AIBU to think that love and relationship success is largely due to luck?

[Shakespearesister]

Definitely bitter and biased here but bare with me…

Im almost 40, 3 small children and my long term relationship is falling apart.
There are a multitude of reasons why but it got me thinking about all my friends who are in happy marriages and relationships.

Lots of them are in similar positions to me, with awful, selfish men who don’t want to grow up, debt issues, wanting to get drunk/take drugs far too often, lazy and not sharing the household chores/mental load.
These are lovely, moral, intelligent women... they deserve more.

I also have friends who are with wonderful men who put them first, do their fair share, act like adults and are hands on parents, look after their wives and kids and our family first. (Sadly, there are very much in the minority.)
I get that some women stay too long with idiots (like me) and that’s on them, but AIBU to think that a lot of time, the people we end up with is just luck/bad luck?

I had no way of knowing what kind of father my partner would be when we met, he was attentive, generous and kind but has slowly become a monster.
No one can foresee addiction issues, potential infidelity etc years in the future.

AIBU to think some people just get lucky in love? Or is this to simplistic.

As someone who used to make poor relationship choices, it wasn't luck but the fact that I was (although I didn't realize it at the time) deeply damaged by an abusive childhood. It was only after counseling that, suddenly, somehow, I ended up with decent men.

This thread is making me feel very sad. So many women feeling they have settled or made choices that have not played out well. Are so many men fundamentally incompatible with having a sincere and supportive relationship?

I know it is hard for people on here to get on here but it can work the other way around not every single female in a relationship is perfect or makes a great partner either

Very much in agreement with this. People who didn't come from dysfunctional backgrounds always seem to think it's something you can just "get over". The reality is that most of us never even knew they were dysfunctional. What you know of life is what you know, there's no magical state of detachment giving an informed overview of family dynamics.

So I picked men who were less-worse than my father, but I behaved very much as my mother had. I saw red flags but was not equipped to grasp their significance. Worst of all, I overlooked nice, sane, decent, well-balanced men. They didn't compute as potential partners - and, in any case, it's unlikely they would've stuck with me for any length of time.

All that is luck. Until we achieve my dream society, in which everyone does therapy as a matter of course, it will continue to affect a large proportion of relationships.

Luck affects things in other ways, too. Perfect self-determination is a fallacy. For instance, I'm not even bothering to think about a relationship any more because I have a debilitating illness and live in a place with very few potentially compatible residents. It's just not a good use of my time under the circumstances. You or family members can get sick, your industry can collapse, war can break out ... our lives are impacted by events beyond our control all the time!

Along with "therapy for all", I want to see a world in which women ditch inadequate partners faster and more decisively. Too many men get away with being selfish dickheads because they can. They should start finding out that they can't!

I think there’s some luck involved in the serendipity sense, being in the right place at the right time sort of thing, not having huge trauma hit your relationship. But also, you’re more likely to have that luck meeting if you aren’t hung up on being in a relationship for the sake of it (or for the sake of children or whatever) because spending a lot of time stuck with guys who aren’t a great fit means you won’t be as available to meet other guys. And you’re more likely to meet more guys who might be a good fit if you put yourself out there in some way. Also, you’re more likely to survive trauma to your relationship if you (both) have forgiving and generous attitudes towards each other and aren’t too hung up on things in life going a particular way.

I also think there is an element of needing to be a suitable partner yourself. For all the talk of men who are shit partners (and I’m not denying that’s a huge issue, but it’s well covered on this thread), some women are too. Common traits that tend to hurt relationships include, I think, amoung many other issues - people pleasing and conflict avoidance. Things that tend to be good (again, IMO) include self-acceptance, courage, knowing yourself well enough to understand when things matter to you and when they’re things someone else has told you you should want, the confidence to speak up early on if things are bothering you along with the communication skills to do so well.

I think alot of people are underestimating the power of childhood role models and your own childhood and parent relationship. When our core beliefs are developing at a young age the way relationships are modelled have such a big impact on our lives. So these red flags seem normal behaviour to us because that's all we have seen and known. Obviously there will be exceptions in the minority. Our attachment styles play a part. If you have a secure attachment due to a healthy upbringing then you will have good boundaries and will wait out to find a partner who is also secure and good for you.
Whereas if you have an anxious or avoidant attachment then the relationships will be difficult.

I myself have had to learn this the hard way through counselling, reading books and studying psychology. I know my relationships haven't been great because of my childhood and trauma. Some people are just born into this and therefore it is luck on weather or not you are brought up with the right role models.

I'll be honest for me personally no. Second time round I very purposely looked for and attracted a partner who would treat me and make me feel how I wanted. Which is what I got.

First time round I thought I was but I listening to what he said instead of watching what he did. And I did not get what I thought I was.

And did some work on myself in-between

I agree with poster below. I think second time around, I'll be much smarter and think about my choice. I think when you're young, dumb and in love you don't really think things through. A great boyfriend might be a very different father. In hindsight I know I fucked up

Certainly the people we meet in life is often down to luck, but the ones we have a relationship with is usually down to choice. In the heady early days of a romance we can be blinkered though, especially for romantic types or if there’s a strong physical attraction. Ending a relationship can be hard too, we’re often keen to try and make things work when sadly they’re not going to. If you are with the right person and manage a long lasting happy relationship then yes there’s an element of luck, but lucky in that you’ve both made it work.
Its a complex area!

There's lots of factors. It starts with the upbringing you had, how well you were taught to be confident in yourself and have good esteem levels and how positive your social experiences were as a child. Over factors can be financial, mh, environmental.
And sometimes it luck.

I didn’t vote because I don’t think yabu, but no, I don’t think its luck. Its a lot of things, but not luck.

I wonder if those who insist it is not luck and is due to upbringing, not seeing red flags etc. have ever had a relationship where they have been completely blindsided by a partners behaviour?

I can say without a doubt, confidently, that I have had this happen to me and that there were no prior warning signs. One ex in particular had a secret online life that did not present itself in their real life at all. It wasn’t just me who was blindsided, but my friends, my family, their friends and their family. Their own mother was completely shocked by their behaviour, so much so she wept to me when she found out. I don’t believe that myself and every other person who knew him missed the warning signs. From my own experiences I know that some men are master manipulators and can compartmentalise parts of their life and personality, especially when it comes to sex and/or fetishes.

What about the actual numbers of relationship-worthy men available?

@Shakespearesister I agree with you on this: but being in the right place at the right time has a lot to play.

I look back on my life and in so many instances of success there was an element of luck, being in the right place at the right time, meeting just the right person or opportunity and then jumping on it or responding to it.

So, I do think that this is true of relationships too.

However, life is also a series of decisions and choices so luck is only part of the equation.

I read an interview with Richard Branson years ago and he talked about luck being part of his success.

And people can change for all sorts of reasons. I knew a couple who were married and were well suited to each other. They bought their first house together. They moved in. Their next door neighbour was very religious and part of a religion where they try to convert people. The wife ended up becoming very religious and it did change her. They stayed together despite this for a few years but it eventually ended their relationship because of how much it changed her and every aspect of her life was always devoted to God, church and being a good Christian.

People can and do change for all kinds of reasons.

People that I know who never seem to change are usually people who haven’t grown or matured or traveled or done much that is different from their usual routine.

I think there was luck in meeting my DH but the getting married and having a DC was a conscience decision. He is just an all round responsible person, he’s not overly close to his parents for example but he was always respectful and dutiful.

He on the other hand probably couldn’t have anticipated how badly I adjusted to parenthood from an emotional perspective. Having said that I think he knew me well enough to know that a) I would never ever neglect my responsibilities and b) I would get my shit together at some point.

Theres a big dollop of trust involved about what aspects of someone personality become more pronounced especially under stress. So I don’t think it’s that people change radically it’s about what side of them wins out. So I’m definitely more selfish than my DH BUT it’s moderated by some empathy and sense of duty and he can ultimately count on that.

If I had been selfish with little sense of empathy it would have been very optimistic to have a child with me and think it would lead to a happy family. I think for those of us from disordered backgrounds it’s hard to discern whats important sometimes.

I remember a thread from a while back where a young woman had a really fucking lazy boyfriend who wasn’t pulling his weight with housework and they had been planning a child. She got a lot of advice telling her to not bother as he’s be no more helpful when a kid came along. It was clear as day he would be a shit dad but how many people let things like that slide? unequal division of labour even before kids or someone who can’t be arsed to get you a cup of tea when you are sick, or doesn’t just wash up when it needs doing or generally prioritises themselves again and again even in seemingly small and unnoticeable ways. I think the signs are often there but some of us are shit at picking them up (I dated enough turds to know my radar was completely off).

it’s mostly not down to luck, a lot of it is down to our pasts and self esteem as to who we choose to enter a relationship with, how quickly we enter relationships, how we behave when we’re in them, whether we ignore red flags or not. If you had a happy, loving childhood you’re more likely to have happy relationships in your adult life than if you didn’t. There are outliers of course, anyone can fall victim to abuse etc but it’s less likely.

I think women do settle for less than what they deserve though a lot more than men because of the desire for kids. I suppose it’s luck as to when you meet the one you deserve, as there a lot of dregs out there to wade through and reject 🤣

Luck... meeting someone you really want to be with.

Hard work maintaining the relationship, especially with children. I think many people let that part of the relationships go, hence more couples with children tend to divorce than othes without.

I agree, lots of women settle as they want to have children.

I remember knowing who the druggy, lazy and useless boys were at school and I would never have married any of them. I think a lot of people project their idea of a great partner onto someone they fancy and ignore the reality. The idea that you enjoy someone’s company, have some fun and then move on before it becomes serious seems to be a bit disapproved of on here, but I think it is better than trying to settle down and have children with the first person you find attractive.

This I love my DH dearly but his flaws were there from the start ( slightly lazy, slap dash about other peoples' preferences, ignores what he doesn't want to confront). In his defense he is also very practical, a great cook, a generous lover and devoted Dad. But yes 25 years on I could have predicted my bug bers now had I paid sufficient attentiin on dates 1-5.

Hard work maintaining the relationship, especially with children. I think many people let that part of the relationships go, hence more couples with children tend to divorce than othes without.

Statistically the opposite is true.

Everyone changes and evolves over the years and due to major life events. I think couples make it work if they want to stay together. I've changed for the better and so has DH. We've had some pretty majori issues but wanted to stay together. We have paid off the mortgage, DH has retired early and I'm back to working full time giving me financial independence, first GC due soon and both DC in decent jobs. Life is very good. I don't think I would have been happier staying single or divorcing at some point look at the positives and remember you aren't perfect yourself!

I do think it is absolutely down to luck, but probably not for the same reason as you, @Shakespearesister

It is pure, dumb luck as to whether you’re born into a family with two loving parents, including a loving, caring, present, engaged Dad.

If that’s your role model, you’re pretty much gold. No guarantees of course, but you stand a much better chance of attracting and maintaining good men / and naturally repelling the dodgy ones.

I haven’t even had to send any bad men packing. I have nothing but good things to say about any of my exes. They were all lovely. Just not right for me! And my DH is as described in my second sentence above.

So yes, absolutely luck. I am lucky enough to have a rock, solid ‘shark cage’, due to nothing more or less than my upbringing.

When you have low self esteem stemming from emotional abuse in childhood it feels impossible to make a good choice, especially as a young person. It then feels impossible to leave that bad situation. A lot of people on this thread are really minimising that.

It's a combination of luck, personality (your own and your potential partner's) and the choices we make.

Some of the choices we make are partly based on luck too (our upbringing, messages we got from our parents and the world etc), but some are made through our own free will.

No one wants to choose a 'bad' partner, no one is really to blame. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Everyone is different in how much they are able to break free of any negative influences they've had in the past that might have a bearing on their choice of partner. Everyone has had different experiences. Everyone is attracted to different personalities and people.

It's complicated but like the whole nature/nurture debate, it's a mixture.

I'd like to add I am not perfect either, I can be bossy and over critical, I am messy and disorganised. But I am generally kind, hard working and prepared to take a chance. We rub along ok and have 2 wonderful DCs together.