AIBU to think that love and relationship success is largely due to luck?

[Shakespearesister]

Definitely bitter and biased here but bare with me…

Im almost 40, 3 small children and my long term relationship is falling apart.
There are a multitude of reasons why but it got me thinking about all my friends who are in happy marriages and relationships.

Lots of them are in similar positions to me, with awful, selfish men who don’t want to grow up, debt issues, wanting to get drunk/take drugs far too often, lazy and not sharing the household chores/mental load.
These are lovely, moral, intelligent women... they deserve more.

I also have friends who are with wonderful men who put them first, do their fair share, act like adults and are hands on parents, look after their wives and kids and our family first. (Sadly, there are very much in the minority.)
I get that some women stay too long with idiots (like me) and that’s on them, but AIBU to think that a lot of time, the people we end up with is just luck/bad luck?

I had no way of knowing what kind of father my partner would be when we met, he was attentive, generous and kind but has slowly become a monster.
No one can foresee addiction issues, potential infidelity etc years in the future.

AIBU to think some people just get lucky in love? Or is this to simplistic.

Yes, we all take a leap of faith when it comes to committing to someone. You can’t know what the future holds. Some couples just grow apart. Some stay together as they feel it to be more convenient than not for them.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

And women allow these men to get away with shit behaviour and minimise their actions until it becomes untenable.

Yanbu. My partner is amazing and does more than his fair share including mental load and extends this kindness to my family. When we met I was a. not bothered about any of that, as we lived in our own house shares for ages and I had no inclination to move in for ages and b. too emotionally immature at early 20s to think any of this stuff would matter in the long term. So even if the signs had been there (good or bad) I'm not aure I'd have noticed or cared.

Ita genuinely only since we had kids that I have realised how lucky I am (and I think he is lucky too). I always post on relationship threads and say there should be a pre marriage course for everyone who is getting married to at least talk to each other and agree whether you want kids, how will finances / chores / free time be split especially if you have kids and one of you works more. Because discussing expectations is really important.

It astounds me the number of men who expect to continue to do a hobby 3x a week including one whole weekend day when they're married with kids. But it also astounds me that I never even thought to ask, I just assumed my partner would give up most of them when kids were small (and he did).

One thing i never spotted was his mum and dad took equal responsibility for everything. His dad would come and visit and I'd pop out and he would have hoovered as a thanks for dinner. I'd always advise people to look at how their partners parents interact and what their partner thinks about it

And @colouringindoors, it's not a guarantee, just maximisation. I am really sorry that happened to you.

No it takes people opening their eyes and accepting people who they are good or not

And no no one can change another person, luck doesn't come into it but no one needs to stay with someone if it is not working

Even winning the lottery is not luck it is having the number that come up

Using the word 'luck' is lazy it doesn't actually exist

I think there is definitely luck involved in meeting the 'right' person for you. But beyond that, as pps have said ,I think that often the relationships that end up falling apart is because so many people rush into it because they want children. Part of the problem there is that people are waiting later to start their families and that does mean the biological click is ticking. Starting careers later, being able to afford a home, all feed into it. Taking time to really get to know each other was really important to me. I met my DH when I was still at school. We clicked and were together for several years before we began to think about a life together. But in those years we got to know each other very well and knew we made a good team. And after marriage, we waited a number if years before having our DC's. All of which meant we had ironed out any 'big' issues by the time DC's appeared. So I guess our luck, if any, was in meeting each other early enough to be able to afford the time to get to that point. The rest of our relationship is down to the fact we work through any problems and that we support each other when needed - bereavement, illness etc.
I wouldn't say that our 46+ year relationship is down to luck, other than that initial meeting.

I don't think people can change massively; however, I believe that often there's sides of character that just don't show unless in certain circumstances. There is a reason why a lot of issues resurface when something changes - pregnancy, kids, the woman becomes a SAHM, illness etc.
There are sides to my dad that my mum was not aware of in 40 years of marriage, right until her parents needed end of life care. I mean, they are still together and love each other, but I remember that she was shocked that she has never seen that before.

I don't think it's luck, I think it is about women having pretty low standards and putting up with shit.

Put some boundaries in place and stick to them . Lack of respect is bourne from letting men walk all over you,

I think it's a mix.
I think some of it is unfortunately dependent on how our fathers treated us and therefore what traits we seek (subconsiously) in a life partner. Also how our main care givers modelled parenting to us when we were children.
Eg my mum called dad out if he was ever being a twat and vice versa, they modelled good communication and good parenting.
Likewise my husband's dad did.

I think a lot of it is about good communication. Do you talk to each other and prioritise your relationship over long periods of time or not? You have to work at a marriage every day, and if one of you isnt/won't then it won't work out.
Also do you as a woman who has been socially conditioned to be submissive (because we live in a patriarchy) establish clear boundaries and expectations b4 you have children together? E.g. if you did all the housework/mental load/caregiving and put your own needs last every time when dating, is it a surprise that this pattern still exists 20 years and several children later? I think women especially need to vocalise and assert these resentments earlier in relationships as a litmus test to weed out/re-train men who "just don't see" etc. And I do think some women avoid these difficult conversations because on some level being a constant martyr is easier for them than being an assertive adult, because of their own childhoods and the patriarchy.

I also think it is luck though, as like others have said, sometimes you don't know you have shacked up with a cunt until they show their (often abusive) true colours, and this is a clearly documented trait of abusers.

I think it goes all the way back to childhood. If you experienced unconditional love and okay family dynamics in childhood then you are much more likely to achieve a loving and positive relationship as an adult. If you experienced trauma, family dysfunction and/or abuse and a lack of protective factors, then achieving a healthy relationship as an adult will be much harder and less likely. And, I guess, the circumstances that we are born into is down to luck. So yes, it is luck.

Agree it's luck to meet someone at the right time who is suitable for you.

If you've been lucky enough to go to university/college, travel, be in a position pick up "fun" jobs with lots of similar aged people whilst you're young then I think the chances of meeting a decent partner at the right time of life greatly improve. Right place, right time. I've met loads of guys who I know would have been great for me, but they all coupled up young with what I perceive to be "lucky" matches who were there at the right time. I'm sure those partners think they've put in the work and don't see the element of luck. But not everyone gets the opportunity to spend their 20s meeting people their age. Online dating is grim as we know and regular socialising isn't always a possibility depending on circumstances.

Once you get older, people might drop standards due to wanting kids or not wanting to be alone. Not everyone of course, but a lot. It's a shame women are harshly judged for this. But that's life.

What a ridiculous thing to say! I never said nor do I think that women who experience DV only have themselves to blame. Of course the perpetrator is to blame!

I do think though that some women are taken in more easily by men who are unpleasant. This might be due to the woman's upbringing and history or just a general inability to read people properly. It's not the woman's 'fault' but it obviously is in her interest to work on this rather than assign the whole thing to luck. This is why initiatives like the Freedom programme exist. Unfortunately many women will repeatedly fall victim to these men unless the cycle is broken.

Sorry disagree it isn't luck. Far too many women are willing to settle.

I wasn't. And I wasn't prepared to give my children anything other than a brilliant dad.

I dont think it was luck to pick someone with no red flags, same outlook, morals etc.

Typo mistake woo *

@FilthyforFirth but surely it is luck to be exposed to the 'good' types of men in the first place? You describe picking them but you can't pick them if they aren't there!

My dh is great but it was very lucky indeed that our paths even crossed to begin with.

I don't think its luck in who you choose to fall for, but the timing is luck if you have met the best person for you at the optimum time for you. As for changing, I think people change a bit but not completely, the issue is that you may meet someone going through a very good patch but the problems existed long before you met and will come back out again. Marriage when there are kids is just co working most of the time but these are often not the traits you look for when you are attracted to someone. I certainly never considered housekeeping skills but that's number one priority now!! I do think most red flags are there if you really look but many people who were not so lucky with timing turn a blind eye when they want the same things in life. Us women particularly are vulnerable to this if we want children.

Exactly. It’s luck - whether luck that you happen upon the right person at the right time, or fall prey to the wrong person, or whether it’s a childhood that taught you a good radar or not.

I don’t believe that those who don’t end up in successful relationships, or worse who are abused, somehow deserve it. Or have failed some sort of objective test.

This the only one to blame for a crime is the person doing it but if people stop and think before jumping into the next relationship like they are revolcing doors then the cycle would stop

We have to be responsible for choosing bad people to be with and espcecialy who we have children with or are allowed near our children

I thought it was a recognised psychological phenomenon that people tend to revert to the roles of their parents once they have children, sometimes completely subconsciously...they act out their childhood. So it's perfectly possibly to marry a guy who is happy to do his share of everything, approach everything equally etc...and then when you have a baby on maternity leave he reverts to doing fuck all around the house, refuses to get up in the night because its the mothers job, carries on doing what he wants at weekends because he 'needs to relax after a hard week at work', expects all housework to be done because she is at home all day with the baby, controls the money because 'he earnt it' etc

There are examples on mumsnet where the poster describes her husband pre children and there are absolutely no indicators of how things would turn out (other than perhaps the parents relationship, which would be unfair to judge the son on). And when discussing marriage and kids it is unlikely that anyone would get into that level of detail

Of course there are cases where the man was always lazy and there were signs that were ignored. But it's not always the case, and it's a bit victim blaming to say the woman should have always spotted the signs

Then there is the type of relationship that your parents modelled when you were growing up. If your parents had a dysfunctional relationship then you're much more likely to...however if you're parents had a great relationship you can still be taken in by a shit bag, you're just less likely to be

Thinking about it, some of it is also how much self-worth you have when you seek a life partner.
As in, this massively impacts what you are willing to put up with and how you seek/expect to be treated by someone who loves you.
If your self worth is high, you will logically think "he says he loves me but his behaviour is disrespectful/doesn't reflect that"
If your self-worth is low, you won't. That's why abusers often erode a person's self worth before beginning physical violence.

Self worth is again linked to your own upbringing and childhood experiences, but also adult experiences. If you've never been shown love in a healthy, respectful way, it is much harder to set clear and high boundaries and expectations.

I think a lot of it is definitely luck, or fate.

There’s a lot of stars that need to align to get a relationship off the ground and into long term.

Some people meet someone at uni or 20 who they live out the rest of their days with, other people are perpetually single despite all best efforts. Almost totally random imo.

I am suspicious there aren’t enough good men to go round.

But when it comes to people staying in relationships they shouldn’t, that’s complicated but ultimately not luck/ bad luck.

Hmm not sure. I suppose I was lucky to meet DH but honestly I met him at college at 16.

He wasn't 'cool', my type, someone I felt was particularly excited by but we had a strong friend connection.

Cue meeting again many years later and that strong connection turned into a strong love. He has all the qualities I look for in a husband and a dad.

I think plenty of other women would have completely overlooked him. So that isn't luck.

Going for the exciting option often doesnt lead to a long and healthy marriage.

Not to disparage my marriage. I am very happy, it isn't perfect but no one's is. But it is solid and I am as certain as I can be addiction, gambling, disintetest in family life etc are not in my future.

Like most other things, there’s some luck involved and some skill.

I’ve noticed my own relationships tend to end up with me being abused and it’s definitely a dynamic that I play a part in. I tend to be very much a giver - it was part of my upbringing that it was more important/better to give than to receive and also that I should put others first. I also somehow picked up “love conquers all” and “you can fix people if you love them enough” vibes.

Adult life has taught me those were terrible messages to grow up with because unless your partner has the same inclination when it comes to putting others first, it inevitably leads to inequality. Then if you believe you can fix people with your love, you’re inclined to think it will all come right if you just love enough, so you don’t leave when you should. All of it absolutely should have been tempered with some serious messages about boundaries.

That said, I knew some young men at university that I probably could have married and found myself in a decent, equal, lifelong relationship. Unfortunately, my first serious boyfriend was an out and out sociopath who broke my mind so badly that I wasn’t ready to take any of those nicer young men on. That really was bad timing as I definitely considered some of them boyfriend material and they also considered me girlfriend material only the times never matched up. After university , meeting young men got a whole lot harder and by then, my biological clock was ticking.

However, I do believe I was somewhat unlucky, even though I was also a mug.

But some women aren’t so much lucky in love, so much as they just wouldn’t have put up with what I did.

Agree. Just listened to my sister rant about how her dh has changed so much since they had kids.

He hasn't, he's always been the same. Likes to put himself first and had never even tried to disguise that. It's all rose tinted glasses

I think it's hard to predict how any of us will react to becoming parents especially if there's any sort of trauma background but I've not seen anyone change significantly between kid 1 and 3. The more kids you have the harder it is to get out and support yourself. Women need to take a far harder look at the men they choose AND talk a lot more explicitly about their expectations as their relationship transitions through different phases.