AIBU to think that love and relationship success is largely due to luck?

[Shakespearesister]

Definitely bitter and biased here but bare with me…

Im almost 40, 3 small children and my long term relationship is falling apart.
There are a multitude of reasons why but it got me thinking about all my friends who are in happy marriages and relationships.

Lots of them are in similar positions to me, with awful, selfish men who don’t want to grow up, debt issues, wanting to get drunk/take drugs far too often, lazy and not sharing the household chores/mental load.
These are lovely, moral, intelligent women... they deserve more.

I also have friends who are with wonderful men who put them first, do their fair share, act like adults and are hands on parents, look after their wives and kids and our family first. (Sadly, there are very much in the minority.)
I get that some women stay too long with idiots (like me) and that’s on them, but AIBU to think that a lot of time, the people we end up with is just luck/bad luck?

I had no way of knowing what kind of father my partner would be when we met, he was attentive, generous and kind but has slowly become a monster.
No one can foresee addiction issues, potential infidelity etc years in the future.

AIBU to think some people just get lucky in love? Or is this to simplistic.

@Bumpitybumper @WandaWonder you and lots of other posters here keep saying that women need to be more discerning/ better at spotting signs/ read people properly etc... That is blatant victim blaming. I expect you also advocate for women not to wear skimpy clothes lest they get themselves raped. It is not always possible to spot men who will turn nasty later and it is not women's responsibility to have to hone their skills to do so. Men who start out nice and turn nasty later are ubiquitous.

In hindsight OP, were there no red / amber flags in your relationship in the years before ye had children?

luch has a little bit to do with it in that there are some great guys out there but not everyone is lucky enough to encounter them

Everyone should take responsibility for their actions and choices male or female and using the 'victim; blaming card is not a 'get out of jail free' for sticking label on something so people don't have to engage their brain, even more important when children are involved especially when bringing non-biological partners into their lives

If a partner has a history of issues with previous partners don't excuse it then move them in or continue having children with them.

women have as many brains as men, they should be used more by everyone a lot more

I think it's simply what you put up with. I dumped a lot of men very quickly, argued with them loads, because my standards of how I should be treated were so high. My DH is super caring, does loads for me. But I simply wouldn't stay with anyone who was crap.

What's sad is that if you have a bad upbringing, you become conditioned to think that's how you expect to be treated, so you're way less likely to end up with someone treating you well.

But I think it's all about what you allow yourself to put up with.

@candgen625 same situation here, SiL is now stuck with a guy that was a walking red flag. Myself and DH tried to talk to her about it even, when they were dating/engaged but she ploughed on and his love bombing got her married and pregnant in a year. Now surprise surprise, turns out he's a knob who likes hitting on other women and drinks too much! Very much like we observed every time we met him prior to the wedding...

No, luck has nothing to do with it. The women who don't end up with shit men tend to be the ones with strong boundaries, good self-esteem, and who are not afraid to be on their own. The women who need a relationship, want children asap, and are afraid to wait for something better, tend to overlook a lot of red flags and settle for less-than-ideal men and just hope for the best. It's actually the same for men. Many overlook obvious flaws in their partners because they don't know how to be on their own. But that's less of a risk for men because they find it much easier to walk away and are less likely to be left holding the baby. Very few people don't have a past, and if you look at that past, you will learn a lot about someone. Very rarely do shitty people suddenly become shitty people.

In my experience, everyone I know just settled down with whoever they were with at around 30 without too much consideration for their future parenting capacity. So I guess it is luck when you don’t really analyse their suitability beforehand.
Sadly it has been entirely predictable who turned out to be a selfish and disengaged father amongst our friends. If they are generally selfish with their time or resources prior to having a baby then the higher the likelihood he becomes nasty and resentful after the baby.

Really what all the lucky people here are saying is that rather than being lucky, they are incredibly highly skilled - at spotting men who are going to turn nasty later in a relationship. Bully for you girls, but apart from sounding really rather self righteous, anti women and frankly pretty ridiculous, you also completely let men off the hook.

So all the millions of women out there who have had terrible experiences at the hands of men should just have engaged their brains or done more thorough research into their partners' previous histories. Oh yes of course that information is published in 'Bad Men's Previous Relationships History Weekly'... 🙄

I do think there is an element of luck, but it can be more about being in an environment that makes it more worthwhile to work things out rather than just leave. Or having temperaments that work together.

This is going to sound quite awful, but when I think about a lot of the long term good marriages I know, they are people who came from pretty stable, good marriages themselves, or even blended families but stable good relationships were modeled. By the men and women.

I think a lot of things old fashioned parents used to say about marrying someone from a "good" family were correct. Of course it isn't a sure thing, nothing is, there are really nice families that produce twits and psychos. But a lot of the people I know who married twits and psychos, when you look at the larger family, you see more twits and psychos.

And the good dads I know very often had good dads themselves or other men who played that role.

I also think the people who seem to struggle more often to identify bad men tend to come from a place where they had more problematic examples of men in their life growing up.

I can think of notable exceptions, but overall I think it's a pattern.

I am not sure where you get that logic? Noticing someone is an ass doesn't absolve them from being an ass. Not noticing doesn't make you at fault.

I think the ‘luck’ comes in childhood - do you have good, healthy relationships modelled to you? Are you taught self worth and how to advocate for yourself?

The luck I had to be born into that is what gave me the skills, knowledge and confidence to find and recognise a good partner, and the ability to work at the relationship within secure boundaries. There are so many things women put up with on here that I just never would - I know I’m worth more. People don’t really change.

You've hit the nail in the head. In life we overlook bad behaviour under the guise of being in love. People don't change, they either become a better or worst versions of themselves but their true core personalities remain the same. Once I realised that, i started making the right choices re life partner. And I'm now happily married for 12 years

I would say my luck has been pretty bad in that every man I have ever met has been unsuitable in the end so I've ended it, sometimes quickly, sometimes it has taken a while to notice the incompatibility - especially if they are good at masking.
I've never consciously searched for a man and also I'm very happily independent. At this point I'm single and happy and have no intention of going through the whole 'finding out if someone's suitable' rigmarole again. It's been a waste of time so many times. I'm done with it.

So yes - there's an element of luck in that the people you meet are going to be compatible or not. No-one I have met, has been.

Nailed it in the first post. How someone deals with relationship problems or life problems such as addiction will be evident in how they deal with any type of issue or conflict early on in the relationship. It also follows that these men will not settle with women who won’t tolerate their shit (as the women will be out the door pronto) and they instead marry women who are likely to stick around despite their shit.

Reflecting on people I know socially and through work who are married or partnered up, I guess they may have all felt 'lucky' at the start of their relationships. However, years later they will freely admit either ambivalence to their spouse, or strong negative emotions. I know several people who admit loathing their partners, but they are all stuck for financial reasons. One stays with her husband for half his pension (but hates him for being a control freak), and another refuses to leave her husband because he funds her business. One woman stays because she has been with her husband for so long, and had so many arguments over the years that she sees it as the new normal. She admits she doesn't have the courage to go it alone. Another is dreading her husband giving up work and retiring, as he currently works abroad for several months before coming home on leave for a few weeks. She always drafts jobs for him to do to get him from 'under her feet'. One colleague is living with her partner who is an alcoholic. She has poor credit from bankruptcy, and her only way to buy a house was through him. She freely admits she would leave him if she had the financial means as she finds him disgusting, yet felt lucky at the start of dating to have met someone who rescued her from her financial disaster. I have a tradesman who works for me, and has been a long term single Dad to two children. He has sole custody, and the kids don't see their mother as she moved away. He met a woman who also had kids, and I guess he felt lucky to have a special connection at the start He always appeared loved up at the beginning and talked positively about her. They all moved into her 2-bed house to save money when the cost of living crisis hit. He doesn't feel so lucky now, with four teenagers living under the same roof who don't get along. They have no lounge as it has been taken as a bedroom, and he admits going camping at the weekend alone to get away from his new blended family. He says when everyone is home then it feels like standing room only. He cannot afford to get another house, and is stuck. His relationship is now strained by these factors. People may start out feeling lucky, and then change their mind as time and circumstances shift.

Are these women forced into relationships against their will? Presumably the vast majority of them can leave whenever they choose. But a lot dont it seems, and this is where not luck but choice comes in.

I dont feel lucky, I simply knew what I wanted and was willing to stay single unless I found it.

I will accept the argument of a lucky childhood in that I had a stable home life where good standards were modelled to me

I think meeting that person is down to luck but I also agree that we all ignore red flags!
I met my partner 8 years ago and we’re heading for breaking up , but when I think back to when we met I ignored so many things that I’ve realised with age we’re massive red flags

Agree with this, but then part of making a better choice is coming to terms with you childhood shitty patterns sooner than later.

i had a crap time with relationships in my 20s.

took myself to therapy and was able
to understand and overcome my shit patterns

which empowered me
to choose a better and different partner than if I’d been a bit ‘luckier’ younger

and I also have really great interpersonal skills to navigate my relationship well.

im more emotionally mature than my partner and sometimes that is a drag.

but he’s a decent guy and willing to work at being a better one.

in contrast I know a couple getting divorced now where they seems to have an easier ride than I did meeting and getting together

but it turns out their relationship has been on a downward spiral of unspoken resentments for years.

the guy is now doing the emotional work. Late but better late than never

his STBEXW is pushing on for divorce.

She comes from family background of emotional neglect and seems to be repeating a pattern of cutting and running to avoid facing up to and working through her own shit.

If someone turns into an alcoholic at 35 they’ll will have shown addictive tendencies throughout their life. Either that or has shown other unhealthy coping mechanisms. Or they might have shown signs of other unhealthy behaviours victim mentality, anger, commitment phobia etc

Not luck. We are programmed by our childhoods to seek out certain partners and it takes a lot of work to unpick that and know how to find someone more suitable. Most people don't realise this until they get their fingers badly burned.

Same. I also married the nice guy and he went off the rails after his father passed away. His behaviour and personality completely changed. He is not a particularly nice person any more. We are nearly three years into this. The DH currently sleeping downstairs on the sofa (his choice) bears almost no resemblance to the man I fell in love with.

There were a few character flaws that in retrospect were apparent in the dating phase but nothing, nothing could have prepared me for the extent what happened after marriage.

DH fared very badly during the pandemic from a mental health standpoint and I don't think that helped. Lockdown really did a number on him. He is still severely depressed and extraordinarily difficult to live with. This guy was once sunny, energetic and kind-hearted. Can you really predict when you get engaged how a partner is going to behave in a hypothetical pandemic that unbeknownst to you is about to occur a year or two down the line? Can all of you who are in happy relationship situations now truly say that you have thought about/discussed how your partner would react in an extreme adverse scenario? Did you stress-test your relationship for potential trauma, illness, bereavement, natural disasters, attacks by bears etc etc?

Maybe my experience isn't that common but I 100% believe that people can change for the worse or that a crisis can reveal worse aspects of their nature that would never have surfaced in normal times.

And before anyone asks, I've been supporting and encouraging him to access mental health care, and we are stopping at one DC.

@colouringindoors I'm really sorry to hear what you have been through, that sounds so hard 💐

Thanks @Olinguita I appreciate that. I'm so sorry you're in a similar position, it can be devastating. Take care 💐

I think that one of the things that can be problematic is that it can be exhilarating to be in a relationship with someone dysfunctional at the start. They blow hot and cold and their partners get huge dopamine highs when all's going well and then crash when things aren't. It can be addictive and like a lot of addictions, logic and common sense go out of the window.

I know it's a cliché, but hurt people hurt people, and I say that acknowledging that i was difficult to be in a relationship with before I truly processed my traumatic past/childhood.

Some people have quite strong rescuer/helper tendencies, and are drawn to people they can nurture, but i think there is much greater potential for chaos when this dynamic is present. Ideally both partners will have worked on any significant "stuff" we might be carrying before getting into a relationship, and especially before introducing children, although of course none of us are perfect and we all have a past.

A couple consisting of two emotionally healthy adults who are self aware and can communicate assertively and regulate themselves using healthy coping mechanisms have a much better chance at being successful than the alternative.

I also think a similar outlook on life, goals and beliefs is important, but without the ability to communicate well and from a place of security it's so much harder to work on the relationship because no one's voice is actually being heard and their relational needs are less likely to be met.

Thanks. I think your points are good. I'd say we scored 9/10 when we married. Families, outlook, priorities etc bang on. Not one single person saw what happened coming.

I would say that an unexpected MG crises is one thing that can be truly bad luck.

Similarly, addictions usually are somewhat predictable, but there are exceptions, I've known of a few where someone had an injury and ended up addicted to opioids and it completely changed everything in a very short time.