To be upset about Ex’s new partner bathing our child?

[IcyCat]

Bit of relevant background: ExH and I have been separated for 18 months, hopefully soon to be divorced. We have 3 children (7, 9 & 11) and we get along/co-parent fairly well most of the time. I am the resident parent, our children stay over at his 1-2 nights per week depending on his schedule.

He's been with his new partner for about a year and they’ve recently moved in together. I’ve not met her, but the children like her a lot, so I’ve no problem with her generally. She has children of her own who live with them full time, they don’t see their father due to previous abuse (according to ExH).

Tonight I started running a bath, and DD (7) told me she didn’t need a bath, because she’d already had one with ”partner’s name” before I picked her up (at tea time).
So I said “Oh ok, daddy didn’t tell me you had a bath today.” And then she said daddy didn’t know because he was out at football practice with DS (which was 2pm ish so middle of the day?), and ”partner” gave her a bath, she helped her wash her hair and dried her off, dried her hair etc when she got out.

I feel a bit weird about this. Firstly I don’t think it’s at all appropriate for this woman to be bathing my young child, it’s her dad’s responsibility. Secondly, why do it while he’s out, and to put her in the bath in the middle of the day is odd anyway? I did ask DD if she had been doing some kind of messy play to need a bath but she said no.

I don’t want to accuse this woman of anything because as far as I can tell from the conversation with DD, nothing else happened besides the bath. DD wasn’t upset and told me conversationally, but I’m not comfortable with it at all and wouldn’t want it to happen again.

I know ExH will likely say I’m overreacting so I thought I’d ask mumsnet before I raise it with him, I’m sure I can rely on honest opinions here!

So AIBU to be upset by this?

@NYC2018 Of course OP has a say! That's nonsense. Just as he would if OP suddenly moved a new partner in within 18 months of meeting them and started allowing him to bathe their DC. You can quote laws & rights etc but ultimately it's nothing but good parenting to have an interest and a say in what happens to your child whilst in the other parent's care.

@Swipernoswipingg Said it best, this child was naked^^ whilst neither parent was present. With only one adult who barely knows the child, present.
I realise it's a very sad realisation but unfortunately the reality is, that this put OP's DD in a very vulnerable position. I'm sure the girlfriend is perfectly nice and none child-abusing but God forbid the unimaginable had happened.... Think about how those conversations afterwards would've gone:

"Why on earth was the father not present?"

How could the Dad allow his DD to be bathed by someone he'd not known more than 18 months?"

@NoOrdinaryMorning Ok, let's say the OP says to the father that she doesn't want the step-mum babysitting and/or bathing their daughter. Then the father says, "I understand your concerns but it's ultimately my decision when they are at my house".

What then?

Also, any & all child abuse organisations will tell you that 90% of abuse cases are done by someone the victims know/knew. Ninety percent.
A stepDM would certainly be someone OP's DD knows. So let's mitigate the risks and not put/allow our DC to be put in, situations where this can happen....

Personally, I'd then either start legal mediation in order to try come to some amicable agreement. If not, I'd then be forced to stipulate supervised contact only whilst starting court proceedings (would represent myself if a solicitor was not tenable), during which I'd request a CAFCASS assessment. CAFCASS can then decide whether there's a risk there and ultimately the courts can then make the decision for me.

I won’t ever be in this situation though as my DC won’t ever have a stepparent

OP, I would feel odd about this too.
You really need to insist that you meet the new partner, she’s spending considerable time with your children, it’s a no brainer and I agree with the other posters who reckon your ex has been running you down to her.
When I first got together with my (now Ex) DH his ex asked to meet me as their son would be staying over at my home - I was very happy to do this to put her mind at ease.

@NoOrdinaryMorning Thanks for answering.

In my experience, a court would likely side with the father in this scenario and Judges are usually very firm in their view that what happens in parent 1's house is not to be interfered with by parent 2 unless there are serious decisions to be made such as a choice of school, healthcare issues, religion choice etc.

The court usually maintains that each parent can make day to day decisions independent of the other. Bath time and who cares for the child would be considered a day to day decision. Obviously if the step mum was a danger and this could be proven, then a prohibited steps order could be applied for and likely granted depending on the evidence and circumstances.

Day to day decisions are expected to be made by the person who has care of the child at the time and as long as the child is not coming to any harm, the courts would not micro manage this sort of thing.

One case I was involved in (some details changed as I cannot disclose sensitive information) it was alleged by the father that his son had disclosed that he was being showered by his step father and the step father was causing him physical pain while in the shower. It was also alleged that the stepfather was watching the young boy use the toilet and via a camera in his bedroom while changing, which was admitted to. The father kept the boy in his care due to his concern. As there were no injuries or evidence (despite the admission) the judge ordered that the young boy was to be returned to the mother and stepfather immediately.

I have shared this to demonstrate that whilst it is a huge thing for parents, it is not considered a concern by the courts who ultimately deal with extremely serious abuse cases. They would not consider a day to day case of a step-mum babysitting and helping with bath time to be something to make a prohibitive steps order about.

I know you feel strongly about it but that course of action, reason for taking a matter to court and stopping contact would likely not go in your favour.

I don’t think you understand how these situations work. As long as the child is coming to no harm you can’t start making stipulations about what happens in the other parent’s house under threat to withhold contact.

Would you rather she sends the child home grubby / needing a wash?

Personally, I assist bathing my partners 6 yo twins.
By bathing, I mean I'm sat on the closed toilet making sure they don't mess about too much. Remind them to wash where needs washing and help with washing their hair.
His ex even said she is more comfortable with me doing it than her ex, which I found really weird anyway. I only do it on the odd occasion though, say their dad needs to pop the shop or is working.
I can understand finding it hard to hear at first but if you have no worries about motives and your daughter was very open about it and what happened, then I would trust that your ex and his partner are just trying to get on as a blended family and treat all the same.

Maybe she sees your daughter as the daughter she never had. I personally wouldn't like it. And bathing in the afternoon is a bit weird IMO

I don't know if marriage makes any difference. I thought children with a mother and father divorced then remarried, the new partners become step parents to their new partners children . This to my understanding means the new partners become alternative 'parents' when in the care of the birth mother and father with this including all aspects of care.🤷‍♀️

I agree.

The step mother or step father acts in loco parentis whereby if they have been entrusted with the care of a child by either one or both parents, the person acting in loco parentis takes on the role and responsibility that a parent with PR has, enabling them to perform basic care that is expected from a parent.

Why haven’t you met her? I’m a step mum and the mother of my husbands child wanted to meet me before her daughter stayed with us. Totally reasonable. She didn’t have a clue who I was.

This is what I was going to say.
Nothing against the dad, and would all be harmless, etc, but changes from this age onwards, most girls (and their dads) are more comfortable with assistance from another female.
Like some have said, could be two birds, one bath, if she was bathing her own child or they asked to share? But if you're really not happy, politely put some boundaries in place. No harm in that either.

I think at 7 your daughter could give you a sense as to whether they didn't like something or found it weird. As long as they know you won't overreact then kids are so honest and have excellent intuition - which society beats out of us sadly as we age.

So if she is seemingly happy and isn't giving you negative vibes about the partner, I would absolutely leave this.

It's very possible she wanted her to just be clean and look nice going home - in a way so you see she's a competent step parent who cares. I know you'll never know for sure but I really believe we should be guided by our kids. As long as you aren't rolling eyes or moaning about the new partner to your kids, I'm sure they will give you the truth.

I'd leave this one personally then just keep an eye on it mentally so to speak. If your daughter likes her and she's showing interest in her, this is a great thing. If anything inappropriate pops up, your daughter will tell you - as long as you don't keep quizzing her but just allow an environment of trust.

I remember looking after family members and had them all in the bath. They were covered by bubbles but I took loads of snaps on my phone of them having fun in the bath. My nephew mentioned me taking lots of pics of them in the bath later on that day and I thought omg that sounds so weird and suspect and god knows what anyone would think! I don't use social media but I was so paranoid after that. Things can sound a bit odd because we are so sensitive to anything inappropriate in this day and age. I think you're right not to be naive but just see how it goes. Alot of people have daytime baths. I do.

Oh come on. I bet your daughter's hair looked lovely too, when she came home. And maybe the boys are really messy and leave the bathroom in a state after football practice. Just give the benefit of the doubt - it's not like DD returned with bruises or upset. When your kids are with Dad focus on yourself and well-being. Because you honestly don't want them to be very critical and interfering if you start a new relationship. Because obviously right, you're going to make sure any new boyfriend passes their approval test, and dad gets to decide how and when new boyfriend interacts with your kids ....

They are not divorced.

@AdriftAbroad1 That doesn't change the situation in this scenario. They are living and parenting separately.

If you read the circumstances it does.

She is not a step mother in any way, shape or form.

She's not a step mother by the legal definition but would be considered by a court as part of the family and someone whom the father has entrusted responsibility to to care for his daughter whilst she is in his care.

Step mother/father means you are married to someone who was already a parent.

There are no rights or responsibilities conferred as a result of this title.

So being a step-parent or being a partner, makes no difference.

I wouldn't do it, because I am not a mum myself and I think DP's child would have been embarrassed at that age for me to be involved.

DP's ExW bathes her partners child, apparently that's ok as she is a parent.

I can get the idea that she was worried that sending the daughter home without having a bath wouldn't be well received so perhaps that's why it happened, guess you need a chat with your ex to set some boundaries.

The wholething is odd.

Legally? Who knows? Who knows what was happening before with court/prison/ss? It wold be indeed interesting to see what stood up in court.

The husband is preventing OP from meeting his short term girlfriend.

There could be the possibility that his partner doesn't feel comfortable meeting his ex under forced circumstances. I am confident they will end up meeting at some point in a more natural setting.

I am glad you feel confident. You certainly feel strongly.