AIBU to defend my daughter?

[stressedmummmm]

My daughter is 11 (12 in June) and she has been a handful to handle both at home and in school. She is starting to get into more and more trouble at school and I'm not sure what to do.

Recently she has gotten into trouble for googling her history teacher during class which the teacher. She's gotten an afterschool detention.

Previously she had gotten into trouble for being rude and combative to her very kind teacher. The teacher has said that negative consequences do not have an effect on her, and the sanction system fails her.

Another teacher has said she's so distributive in music class that the teacher has requested she be moved to another class as she didn't want to deal with her anymore.

At home, she will scream at me if she does not get what she wants. She is very rude to us all. She hits her brothers if they do not listen to what she tells them to do, for example, to turn their iPads down. She will scream if her food is not how she wants it. She will scream if I dont take her somewhere specific now.

She is very jealous of me hanging out with my friends or even speaking to them on the phone. If I go out with my friends she will call her father in tears saying I have abandoned them (we live close to my inlaws, and when I go out my inlaws kindly have the kids). She will also text my friends on my Instagram and tell them to not contact me/I don't want to speak to them.

Her father and I had a rough patch a few months ago and she was witness to a lot of the fighting. However, these behaviour issues are not new at all. Amid our fighting, she got into trouble at school. In the first term of the year, she had gotten (within two months) 25 negatives.

I lost my mum at 14. My stepmom was not kind, and she didn't like me. I ended up spending most weekends with my grandmother on my mum's side. As I got older I started spending more time away from my dad's house until I got married at 23, fresh out of uni. I think I tried to give my children as much love as possible, and I always try to show them I am on their side. Kind of us against the world. When my daughter gets into trouble I am the first to defend her, but it gets out of hand and the school has mentioned suspension and expulsion more than once. My children live a blessed life, they get everything they want. DD goes horse riding three times a week, and I am thinking of buying her a horse.

I am worried that I have raised a spoiled brat but that she also might be neurodiverse. Her brother has been diagnosed with ADHD, but he behaves much better and his issues were very apparent. Shes smart enough to be masking, but her behaviour is out of hand.

My friend tells me I need to become more harsh with discipline, and I should be punishing her more severely. Especially with the horseriding privileges. How should I do this? Please be kind, I am trying my best here.

Electronics are a privilege!

Don't just take the horse riding straight away. See my previous post.

You need to write down behaviour expectations then tell her what will happen if she breaks your rules.

Start a clean slate from today.

What a child needs is clear boundaries and consistency.

You might benefit from going on a parenting course or at least watching a couple of episodes of Supernanny on YouTube!

I agree.

You should punish her now. It doesn't matter if the school has punished her with a detention, she should be punished at home too. The school has very limited power when it comes to punishment and it needs to be exacerbated by the parent(s).

Take away privileges like horse riding until she has demonstrated at least three months of impeccable behaviour at home and school. Maybe then consider allowing it again, but with the constant threat that it will be withdrawn as soon as she steps out of line.

My 12 yr old dd is neurodiverse and exactly the same, sort from in school.
I was giving her harsh consequences and it just doesn't work. She now doesn't go to school and is in burnout.
Listen to your child. Bad behaviour is her trying to say all is not well.
Read the book the Explosive child.

You should be defending your sons from her violence, where are they in all this? Sounds like they’re walking on eggshells while you and their dad have screaming matches and their sister wallops them.

You sort of skim over your marital difficulties. Living in a toxic atmosphere of warring parents is incredibly damaging to children. It’s scary and upsetting. You blame your own upbringing for your permissive approach to your daughter but my allowing your children to witness horrible arguments you’re hurting them in a different but equally bad way.

Another one of these “tell me you’ve not parented a ND child, without telling me you’ve not parented a ND child” threads.

Some of the advice on here is so bad, and will make a difficult situation worse.

if only ND parenting was as easy as taking a phone away, or switching of the WiFi 🙄🙄🙄

I have not set boundaries and consequences for her behaviours. Should I set them now, THEN punish her for subsequent things now?

Yes, this. Sit her down and have a really honest discussion about the way her behaviour impacts others. Get her to understand the pain her behaviour causes you, her teachers, her siblings. She will know this- a large part of her wants structure and discipline.

Then agree with her how she should behave. Put a list up somewhere. When she achieves that (or tries hard and fixes problems) praise her. When she doesn't you apply consequences and you stick to it.

It's going to be hard but do not slip back into spoiling her and making excuses. This need to be long term to work.

I think you need to prepare yourself for when she calls children's services on you.

The posters on here saying she must be neurodiverse/autistic are 1) insulting those with genuine disorders and 2) part of the culture of taking no responsibility for one's actions that is causing chaos in schools and beyond.

OP, you couldn't have created the conditions for a spoiled child better if you'd set out to do it. What message are you giving her about school if you don't back up their sanctions with those of your own? Have you ever discussed right and wrong with her? Did you never clearly teach her about positive and negative consequences? It's not too late to start, but it's heading that way. School, employers and the police won't care a jot about neurodivergence or poor parenting if this continues and inevitably gets worse. You are not doing her any favours.

I feel you get the behaviour you a accept, she has no reason to behave

The few times I have had to pull my child up on their behaviour it was dealt with swiftly and we moved on, they are now a teenager and am yet to have an issue

They must have learnt trying it on with me won't get them anything early on

We were quite low demand, and started giving her the freedom to make decisions and take control

OP's daughter is already dictating decisions and taking control. That's the problem.
When do her siblings get to have any say?

As I said before, I have a lot of professional experience with neurodiversity, and I'm not ruling it out. But I'm concerned that OP will just kick the can down the road while waiting for an assessment, and use a diagnosis that she hasn't been given to make more excuses to defend her daughter's behaviour.

She needs, in roughly this order:
1 To approach school to ask for a meeting to address DD's needs and behaviour, requesting attendance from any professionals they can bring in

2 Look into parenting classes. I googled, and they're everywhere. Private or run by the council

3 Research counselling. If she can afford a horse, she can afford counselling for her daughter and/or family counselling.

Completely agree with this. You are doing her no favours, especially if she gets expelled from school. But then, if you give her everything she wants, why bother with school?

You're overcompensating for your childhood but all children need boundaries. Also, think of the effect this is having on her siblings. While you have her back and are defending her, you are also allowing her to treat them (and you) like crap.

She may well benefit from being assessed but please don't use this as a substitute for putting in some firm boundaries and actually parenting.

Tbh she sounds a bit spoilt. You’re the adults in this situation, you need to set clear boundaries and punish accordingly. I don’t know if you’re worried that it will make her not love you? That’s crazy if so. She certainly doesn’t respect you and will respect you less if you reward her bad behaviour with amongst other things a horse. She needs to earn that with an attitude turn around IMO. You’ll do her no favours encouraging her to continue this way.

Firstly, stop thinking about getting a horse. You have far too much going on right now and bringing a horse into the mix will only create more work and stress. Your daughter has to show she is responsible enough to have one. She will need to show you that she won't be getting any detentions as whilst she's sat in an after school detention, the horse isn't being cared for. Having a horse whilst at school is hard work.

Riding lessons. Drop to one a week and maybe a lesson on the ground in addition. Your daughter will have to remain calm on the ground around a horse and if she is having a stable management lesson, she will need to listen. It's a good starting point being around an animal she loves.

Discuss rules with her and ask for her input in making them and writing/drawing them out on a sheet of paper. Explain why the rules are made and make sure each rule at home is one that can be kept in school. Also discuss consequences.

E.g. if you're rude to me or your teacher, you will have to miss out on a riding lesson. You need to understand that we get nice things IF we behave in a nice way. You can still go for the stable management lesson but not riding.

Also, is there any way she can 'help' at her riding school? I used to help and get a free ride. It may also use some energy up as being around horses is hard work.

Just always try to bear in mind that she is your daughter, not your friend. Good luck

Jesus OP as someone who was physically and emotionally abused I get the need to parent differently to how you were parented but you’ve gone completely the opposite way.

Set boundaries because children need them. They need to learn actions have consequences. Just remember to highlight the good consequences when they make good choices for eg last night my 14 year old told the truth in a situation where he could have lied and got away with it for a few hours but the truth would have come out (he’d taken something into his room he shouldn’t have), I went in to him and reminded him that in him telling the truth he had no consequences other than a “really (sons name) why did you do that?”

also get her assessed for neurodivergence

@stressedmummmm make sure you’re supported. If you can afford private therapy, find a therapist you click with so you can offload your emotions and get non-judgmental help with your mothering. Parenting teens can be really hard when you didn’t get enough of that yourself, and raising ND children is harder - do seek advice on that, and treat her ‘as if’: it won’t harm her, it isn’t about excusing behaviour ‘because autism’ or whatever, it’s about helping your child be calm enough to function for more of the time.

I disagree with a pp that ‘warm, permissive’ is the ‘worst’ parenting style. You’ll have protected your relationship with dd by defending her, even if it would have been even better to advocate without actually defending bad behaviour. Your daughter’s hormones will be raging at her age, everything’s going to be harder/more volatile for a couple of years at least, but you’ll both get through it: you obviously love her very much.

I would not cancel the horse riding and I might still buy the horse, if I thought it would help her stay regulated (only if I’d money for my therapy as well - I’d prioritise that because I’d need it in order to be better for her).

There are no perfect parents, and loads of ways and styles that parents can be ‘good enough’: don’t beat yourself up. Keep connecting with your son/other kids through this, too: it’s hard for all the family when one member is struggling in this way.

Sanctions and punishments often don't work with neurodiverse kids.
Have her assessed for autism and adhd urgently.
This is based on my own experience with a masking daughter, who once hormones started kicking in, changed dramatically. She's auDHD.
Be gentle and kind and see if the school can offer supports rather than punishments. Do not lose her trust.

I agree with rules and boundaries, but these also need to be mirrored by the adults around her. Have you spoken to her about the domestic abuse your children suffered during your fights? Are you and your DH communicating better? She absolutely does not hit her brothers. But definitely explore the ND. It would make sense that after a period of living in DA a ND child, in particular, would start to hit out.

"I'm thinking of buying her a horse after all that behaviour and I wonder if I've raised a spoiled brat" are you for real?! Clearly spoiled and a brat already, she shouldn't be allowed riding lessons if she's going to scream at people and be disruptive all the time.

This thread … ableism 101

Come over to the SN Teenagers thread, even if your child isn’t ND, you’ll get much better advice that the schizzle on here

All behaviour is communication!! Please explore the neurodiversity as girls present so differently to boys. You need to be showing her positive praise when she does do things well, notice the small things and praise them even if it seems ott or what would be considered ‘normal’ expectations. If you can build the trust with her then she will understand any consequences you bring in. Pick your battles too…

Wowzers. No wonder British education is in the toilet. Can’t believe some of the responses on this thread.

Another thread where someone feels they’re qualified to diagnose a child based on a few posts.

I've only got through the first few responses and they kind of break my heart. Your daughter sounds v like my 15 year old son who has ADHD with an oppositional profile. Traditional boundaries 💯 don't work for him - we practice NVR and therapeutic parenting and he takes ADHD meds. The difference is stunning - he was sitting in shame nearly all the time, relationships were fractured and he was in a cycle of resentment. With NVR we have adopted loads of strategies to raise our parental presence, not join in or give in and mainly building trust and a loving bond.

I have 3 other kids who boundaries work for. For some kids this is absolutely not the way and your daughter sounds like one of them. I'm sad people are still so closed minded to the other options out there and what behaviour is trying to tell us. We are so incredibly lucky that our son's school has adopted our strategies and they work with him and he has fantastic relationships with teachers, is getting A grades and mostly attending school (often late and not in uniform but he enjoys it now)

Please look into NVR (non violent resistance) and see if it chimes for you.

Child isn’t ND- or at least not diagnosed.

Many autistic girls mask at school
and are explosive at home. Mine was.

Dangerous to diagnose a child from 2 posts on the internet!

Also- ableism 101, come on!