AIBU to defend my daughter?

[stressedmummmm]

My daughter is 11 (12 in June) and she has been a handful to handle both at home and in school. She is starting to get into more and more trouble at school and I'm not sure what to do.

Recently she has gotten into trouble for googling her history teacher during class which the teacher. She's gotten an afterschool detention.

Previously she had gotten into trouble for being rude and combative to her very kind teacher. The teacher has said that negative consequences do not have an effect on her, and the sanction system fails her.

Another teacher has said she's so distributive in music class that the teacher has requested she be moved to another class as she didn't want to deal with her anymore.

At home, she will scream at me if she does not get what she wants. She is very rude to us all. She hits her brothers if they do not listen to what she tells them to do, for example, to turn their iPads down. She will scream if her food is not how she wants it. She will scream if I dont take her somewhere specific now.

She is very jealous of me hanging out with my friends or even speaking to them on the phone. If I go out with my friends she will call her father in tears saying I have abandoned them (we live close to my inlaws, and when I go out my inlaws kindly have the kids). She will also text my friends on my Instagram and tell them to not contact me/I don't want to speak to them.

Her father and I had a rough patch a few months ago and she was witness to a lot of the fighting. However, these behaviour issues are not new at all. Amid our fighting, she got into trouble at school. In the first term of the year, she had gotten (within two months) 25 negatives.

I lost my mum at 14. My stepmom was not kind, and she didn't like me. I ended up spending most weekends with my grandmother on my mum's side. As I got older I started spending more time away from my dad's house until I got married at 23, fresh out of uni. I think I tried to give my children as much love as possible, and I always try to show them I am on their side. Kind of us against the world. When my daughter gets into trouble I am the first to defend her, but it gets out of hand and the school has mentioned suspension and expulsion more than once. My children live a blessed life, they get everything they want. DD goes horse riding three times a week, and I am thinking of buying her a horse.

I am worried that I have raised a spoiled brat but that she also might be neurodiverse. Her brother has been diagnosed with ADHD, but he behaves much better and his issues were very apparent. Shes smart enough to be masking, but her behaviour is out of hand.

My friend tells me I need to become more harsh with discipline, and I should be punishing her more severely. Especially with the horseriding privileges. How should I do this? Please be kind, I am trying my best here.

I don’t know what post you read but it wasn’t the one this op posted. Evidence of selfishness??? The op has owned up to arguing in front of her children which is just honest, not pretending to be a saint and setting context. And of course she’s describing the problems her daughter has faced. The point of the op’s background is absolutely critical in this - if you don’t see good parenting modelled in your own childhood then you don’t have those skills in your repertoire when dealing with your own children. This op is trying to provide unconditional support to a troubled child but also holding her hands up and accepting she may be getting a lot wrong. I don’t want to beat her around the head with a self righteous stick -I’ve parented 3 teens and your twee comments about happy hugs, deep chats around kitchen tables sound more American tv than the reality of stroppy adolescents. Stop talking in cliches and using quotes when what’s needed is actual empathy

My daughter would not be getting any privileges horse riding etc at all until her behaviour changed

THIS 👆

What if that 'privilege' turns out to be therapeutic for an intrinsic part of her? Does she still get it removed until she stops being ND?

I think both you and her need to seek professional counseling. You because you have done what you know and with good intentions and it hasn’t worked out in bringing her up as you or others would like. This may be connected to how you grew up. You may need to work through personal issues that may have led to you overcompensating with the intention to give your daughter a better childhood than you had. As much as your daughter seems to be the focus, truth is she wasn’t taught better. Given her age, and how long she has been allowed to grow like this, she is going to need intervention to get lasting results. Changing rules and removing privileges may be misunderstood and lead to further rebellion. I think you need to step back and get professional help to guide you on how to approach parenting her differently and work through the harm that has already been allowed. This will lead to you both having better outcomes. Go back to the beginning.
I hope things work out for you and your precious daughter. ❤️

Wow! The comments on here are shocking! It sounds to me like she is clearly struggling with the demands of secondary school and potential neurodiversity, which she may have been able to mask previously. Id explore assessment for ADHD. ADHD rarely travels alone so there may be other neurodiversity too to consider. Go to the GP, meet with the school SENCO. I doubt it’s your parenting (I am a SENCO and a parent of an ADHDer)

She has no consequences! She’s horrible at school yet you still allow her to horse ride 3 times a week and even consider treating her to a horse?!? Madness!
She tried to drive your friends away ? Change your passwords and don’t allow her access to your phone EVER!

I’m afraid if this was daughter there would be no phone and no horse riding till her behaviour behaves.

I’ve seen this exact same thing with friends, spoilt their kids and given them far too much control, no boundaries or consequences and like your daughter their kids are now swearing at parents, teachers, siblings etc…. School can’t cope and threatens exclusion, but the kids are still spoilt with everything they demand!

Another girl who was like this at my DD’s school ended up being taken into care, the mum’s partner couldn’t cope and left taking their son with him, (not girls dad) and mum was driven to insanity and just couldn’t cope with the daughter, she’d been excluded from several schools and was a bully. She comes to visit mum occasionally and even then hangs around outside her old schools to bully people as they leave school… last time she was down she was shoplifting (I saw her personally!).
It might be too late for your daughter, I think we grow up and learn respect as we go… but you definitely need to implement consequences! She needs to behave in order to get treats such as horse riding. And a phone would be a no no for me!

to be fair it could just be hormones.

This so misunderstands challenging children. Consequences and punishments don't work with them so parents try everything - and are often doing much more parenting than an easy child needs - yet still they are judged for not successfully implementing strategies which won't work. Stop blaming a parent who is clearly trying her best with an extremely challenging child. I adopted 2 girls with the most extreme behaviours you could imagine and I lost count of the times parents with no experience of parenting challenging children thought a bit of discipline would work. It is much, much more complicated than that.

Read that back yourself. Do you not see how inconsistent that is? You've already shut the stable door after the horse bolted now. Yes you enforce punishment at home as well, but you do it at the same time. Otherwise school issues tne punishment while you carry on rewarding her behaviour at home. Why would she be bothered about her behaviour at school when you reward her at home with horse riding lessons? The whole thing needs to be consistent or it sends her mixed messages that it doesn't really matter what she does at school because she gets everything she wants at home anyway.

I agree with setting the boundaries but the targets for her behaviour must be achievable. You don't want to set her up to fail as you want her to feel the good vibes she'll get for good behaviour.

She's not going to suddenly be brilliant in all areas so focus on one thing in particular - eg not being rude to her teachers. Or focusing and being polite in English lessons.

Also, targets work best with a time element so she knows when she's achieved it. Eg to be polite in English lessons for 2 weeks. Measured by no messages from school about behaviour in English. = reward of going riding once. Make a visual reminder of the target and the reward. And let school know so her English teacher can make a point of NOTICING her being GOOD. (She needs to see you can get attention this way as well as through being disruptive)

Overall though, sounds like you need to get together with school to work out a behaviour plan. It's better to be on the same page. Ask to speak to the SENCO about getting assessed for neurodiversity but there will be a long wait. Worth it in the long run though as it may help her in adulthood too.

In the meantime, it's probably sensible to assume she is struggling in some way with life and both the school and her home environment are not meeting her needs in some way you've all yet to put your finger on.

Good luck and do reach out to local groups for support. There will be groups near you for parents and carers of children with difficulties where ideas are shared and sometimes other people can spot things you've missed because they've experienced similar. Also, it's just nice to offload with people who understand.

I’m sorry but is this even a real genuine post or someone taking the piss? The whole things far fetched…..basically her daughters a walking demon and she says”I’m thinking of buying her a horse” 😂😂 There’s is absolutely no way this is a genuine story, no parent is THAT stupid to continue rewarding their feral child!! IF it is true take the lot off her, lessons, electronics everything & make her earn them back with good behaviour, even screaming means she waits longer for ONE thing back at a time every day, maybe out your endless pit of money to double check she’s no adhd, autism etc but she sounds ridiculously demanding and controlling, finding it hard to believe any real genuine person would write that post and not realise how fuked up it all sounds 🤨

Don't buy her a horse - if she can't treat other people well, it's not fair on an animal to bear the brunt of her temper

You (and many others on this thread) are showing your ableism and ignorance of neurodiversity. If the OP’s daughter has a nervous system disability, then you are bullying / shaming / discriminating against a disabled person and their carer. Would you do that to a person with a visible disability? Would you tell a paraplegic in a wheel chair to stop being lazy and get up and walk? Or tell a blind woman to leave the stick and dog at home and get over it? Just because a disability is hidden, it doesn’t make it any less debilitating, it’s just in different ways. This is clearly a girl in crisis, and a mother asking for help. If horses calm her nervous system then she should be with horses, there is no black and white rule for all kids. Please think about how harsh your words sound to those caring for and living with hidden disabilities. Even if it is behavioural rather than genetic, it could be trauma based, in which case she needs empathy and time to work through it rather than a heavy handed approach that can only backfire.

Nowhere on this post does the OP say the child is ND or suspected. Everything you’ve said is pure speculation with not one iota of evidence. Her BROTHER is ND but that doesn’t mean she is. It doesn’t even say that the school has suspected she has ND either. Schools are trained to pick up on SEND needs and behaviours resulting from trauma. Neither of this has been mentioned as having being questioned or explored by any professional. All we can glean from this is that OPs child is spoilt and has no boundaries. You can tell she has no idea how to parent because she’s trying to reward temper tantrums with riding lessons! Why don’t you try reading the OP properly before embarrassing yourself by berating other people for no good reason.

The OP states in her first post that she is worried that her dd might be neurodivergent and that she is potentially masking. So it isn't pure speculation to suggest that this might be a possibility. And yes, it's correct to say that, just because her sibling has adhd, that doesn't mean that she has it too. However, the fact that it's in the family does make it more likely.

You seem very confident that, if she did have adhd or some other form of neurodiversity, the school would pick this up as a matter of course because they are trained to pick up on SEND needs. This is a very naive and ignorant view, I'm afraid. Many ND children - especially girls - are not identified as such by schools, and their issues very often go under the radar. I'm very pleased for you that you have not had to learn this from your own experience.

I completely agree. The number of people who just see a spoiled child here who can metaphorically be whipped into shape is astonishing. I thought neorodiversity was better understood than this.

But even ND children need boundaries. OP has admitted she has never imposed boundaries

Your heading was 'AIBU to defend my daughter'. It was never clear who you thought you should be defending her from unless it was teachers then the obvious answer is no since her behaviour at school sounds just awful. It's even worse at home but that seems to have gone on unchecked. Up to there, it just sounds like a spoiled brat. However, once the ND element is introduced that changes everything. No straightforward rules apply, no ordinary common sense or logic. I hope the school can get her assessed and special arrangements made to curb her anti-social behaviour. Wishing you well!

Look, I don't think anyone is arguing that the OP's approach to parenting her dd is working right now. Clearly, something needs to change for the sake of the dd and everyone else around her. That much is obvious.

However, I still think people are being way too quick to jump to the conclusion that she is just a spoilt child, without any real consideration of the possibility that something else is going on. Personally, I just don't think that the standard MN parenting advice of boundaries and consequences is going to be helpful here, and the OP needs to dig deeper to find out what's going on before she can put any truly effective solutions in place.

I didn't say don't allow her to ride, I said don't buy her a horse. There is a difference. Obviously she needs support, but that should not be at the detriment to the treatment of an animal. Regardless of the reasons for her behaviour, no animal should have to bear the brunt of it. Additionally, the stress and extra work involved in owning and caring for a horse, as opposed to having riding lessons is a big deal, and would only make the OP (and in consequence her daughter) more stressed.