AIBU to defend my daughter?

[stressedmummmm]

My daughter is 11 (12 in June) and she has been a handful to handle both at home and in school. She is starting to get into more and more trouble at school and I'm not sure what to do.

Recently she has gotten into trouble for googling her history teacher during class which the teacher. She's gotten an afterschool detention.

Previously she had gotten into trouble for being rude and combative to her very kind teacher. The teacher has said that negative consequences do not have an effect on her, and the sanction system fails her.

Another teacher has said she's so distributive in music class that the teacher has requested she be moved to another class as she didn't want to deal with her anymore.

At home, she will scream at me if she does not get what she wants. She is very rude to us all. She hits her brothers if they do not listen to what she tells them to do, for example, to turn their iPads down. She will scream if her food is not how she wants it. She will scream if I dont take her somewhere specific now.

She is very jealous of me hanging out with my friends or even speaking to them on the phone. If I go out with my friends she will call her father in tears saying I have abandoned them (we live close to my inlaws, and when I go out my inlaws kindly have the kids). She will also text my friends on my Instagram and tell them to not contact me/I don't want to speak to them.

Her father and I had a rough patch a few months ago and she was witness to a lot of the fighting. However, these behaviour issues are not new at all. Amid our fighting, she got into trouble at school. In the first term of the year, she had gotten (within two months) 25 negatives.

I lost my mum at 14. My stepmom was not kind, and she didn't like me. I ended up spending most weekends with my grandmother on my mum's side. As I got older I started spending more time away from my dad's house until I got married at 23, fresh out of uni. I think I tried to give my children as much love as possible, and I always try to show them I am on their side. Kind of us against the world. When my daughter gets into trouble I am the first to defend her, but it gets out of hand and the school has mentioned suspension and expulsion more than once. My children live a blessed life, they get everything they want. DD goes horse riding three times a week, and I am thinking of buying her a horse.

I am worried that I have raised a spoiled brat but that she also might be neurodiverse. Her brother has been diagnosed with ADHD, but he behaves much better and his issues were very apparent. Shes smart enough to be masking, but her behaviour is out of hand.

My friend tells me I need to become more harsh with discipline, and I should be punishing her more severely. Especially with the horseriding privileges. How should I do this? Please be kind, I am trying my best here.

Just read the post at 09:12 @MrsBennetsPoorNerves. She really doesn’t seem to have any idea how to discipline, and now this child’s behaviour has escalated to this level.

You've clearly said that punishment and deterrents do not work, so doubling down helps nobody. Your daughter sounds like she has a different underlying issue that needs addressing, something no amount of punishment of any type will help. Don't reward bad behaviour of course but you can;t legislate out of this.

Sounds like she needs to see a councillor or therapist of some kind. The school should be offering this and helping out.

I'd ask them and then I'd ask for a referral from the GP to a child focussed therapist who can find the root issue of this - her behaviour is a cry for help in some ways, you need to listen to that.

Are you for real?

Don't you dare get her a horse.

My mantra to my wild son (22yr old sweetheart now) was "actions have consequences"
Sit down with her on a "good" day and explain to her what is expected of her at home and at school if she CHOOSES to behave In an unacceptable manner then bring in these consequences.
Sounds simple but you have to act now whilst you still have control.
Good luck be tough

I disagree. I think it's potentially very relevant indeed.

Not because it lets the OP off the hook for parenting her child. It doesn't. And not because it excuses the child's behaviour in any way. Again, it doesn't.

But because it massively affects what the OP might need to do differently in order to address that behaviour.

The behaviour is completely unacceptable regardless, and it absolutely needs to be tackled. The question is how. Knowing whether or not the child is neurodivergent, and understanding how it might impact on them if they are, is crucial to being able to tackle this effectively.

Some kids will not respond well to the standard MN parenting advice, and it will make their behaviour worse, not better. The OP needs to learn how to manage her own child's behaviour, not yours.

... glad you've suspended the horse riding. She needs to show much more maturity and self control before she's allowed back there.

I think you need some parenting classes, OP.

It is not on to undermine the school they way you have been doing your dd's entire life or to allow rudeness and misbehaviour without consequences, but to suddenly come in with some OTT punishment at this stage will not help either.

I can't believe you've let this happen and I can't believe you're now asking people on the internet what you should do for every little scenario, get a grip OP.

You need to take it upon yourself to LEARN how to be a parent, read books, do some courses, maybe see a therapist about your own issues, STOP making this everyone else's problem to deal with.

I absolutely cannot believe that you let her bully and hit her siblings and you do absolutely nothing to correct her, you are 100% letting them down and setting them up for a life of being ABUSED because they will think it's normal.

Absolutely disgusting that you're considering buying her a horse, get your shit together and stop trying to get her to like you, you're her parent not her friend, do your fucking job.

Your daughter is quite literally screaming about her unmet needs and that isn’t a need for a horse.

It’s great you’re always on her side but that doesn’t mean her actions shouldn’t have consequences. She’s old enough to understand the concept and it will help her manage her behaviour.

She needs structure and boundaries, even if she has an undiagnosed neurodiversity. People with ADHD often find routine and structure helpful.

It sounds like you’re not confident in providing this yet - if you check your local library/childrens centre if there is one they often run free to access parenting courses that might help. It’s also worth talking to her school about what resources they can help you access.

You might also find therapy for your own childhood trauma helpful. Your daughter is not the little girl you were, you need to parent the child in front of you rather than looking back at your past and trying to right that through her.

@AlphariusOmegron school sanctions probably don't work as she has always got what she wanted and has never had any boundaries put in place at home. Even ND children need boundaries

@stressedmummmm if you think your daughter might be neurodivergent (and I think she might be, speaking as an autistic mum to autistic children) then get her assessed. You can clearly afford to go private to avoid NHS waiting lists. Also, look into PDA.

I recommend joining some specific Facebook groups where you'll get better advice, such as https://m.facebook.com/groups/207951976411320/?ref=share which is a really supportive group that I've found very helpful.

I agree totally with this. The best of luck x

I wouldn’t stop lessons completely - just pause them and make her earn them back (eg reward chart linked to school behaviour etc); similarly with tech. Take/lock it away for a week, and then state she can earn it back in 1 hr blocks. Ie punishment = temporary removal of tech/pause in lessons; reward = earns them back in controlled amounts. Make clear what expectations are: tidy bedroom, behaviour at school, behaviour at home. You need to do this with your husband so that you are on the same page.

It may in fact get worse initially as she pushes back - but hold firm and I would speak to the school and explain that you are trying to put measures in place.

She needs to understand that she is not an adult and whilst her preferences will be considered, you and DH are in charge. Kids need boundaries, whether ND or not.

A lot going on here
Could be neurodivergence so that needs to be explored esp if a sibling with adhd.
But still not an excuse for the behaviour which could be a number of things - hormonal, unsettled from seeing arguments, potential
friend issues at school, poor mental health. Or a mix.
I wouldn’t buy the horse, and I would really drill down to what is potentially going on. And put good boundaries in place. All DCs need boundaries.

I wouldn’t inflict her on a horse, for the sake of the horse.

@stressedmummmm is she demand avoidant? I.e. does she perceive reasonable requests as demands, and therefore avoids?

Would people be demanding you cancel her sport if she was in a football team? I doubt it, they would be saying fresh air and excerise is important for her mental health, which seems to be in turmoil. Don't cancel the riding lessons, but don't buy her any animal until she can prove that she is mature and responsible enough for the care needed. Horses are particularly hard work (I've had a few).
Get her to a doctor as she clearly isn't coping. It could be puberty or anxiety, sen, possibly all or non, it could be that something else is going on and she is acting out. She needs help and clear boundaries. Once they get to high school age it seems a bit late for punishment, but if you do punish make sure it fits the crime, ie abuse of phone means she looses the phone. When my dd gets overwhelmed I take her out for a long walk or for a coffee and we talk.

I think I tried to give my children as much love as possible, and I always try to show them I am on their side. Kind of us against the world. When my daughter gets into trouble I am the first to defend her, but it gets out of hand and the school has mentioned suspension and expulsion more than once. My children live a blessed life, they get everything they want. DD goes horse riding three times a week, and I am thinking of buying her a horse.

Congratulations, you got the child you raised.

Punishment should be fitting to the crime, she screams at her brothers, she needs a time out. hits them she goes to her room with no electronics, so the punishment gets more severe depending on the situation
She does something bad at school she loses a horse riding lesson, three strikes she loses lessons for a week.
if she’s screaming at you for not getting what she wants, remind her that manners and politeness and behaviour affect what extras you are prepared to provide.
Sounds to me from what you have said that she has no boundaries set to follow.

@stressedmummmm have you ever disciplined her?
You are going to have to start putting in clear boundaries.

You need to speak to her when she is calm / behaving and talk to her, telling her that from now on there will be consequences for her behaviour - both good and bad.

Do you have parental controls on her phone? Start using them and limit her screen time

Be clear on what the consequences are e.g.
if she get bad behaviour points at school - no screens for the evening.
If she gets a detention grounded for a week with no screens.
If she keeps getting detentions, no horse riding lessons.

If she's been good all week (i.e. being normal) she gets to choose what to eat for family dinner on Saturday night or choose a weekend activity.

If she really wants a horse, she needs to start behaving well, consistently for a prolonged period of time e.g. 1 to 2 years. That means she is mature enough to look after it.

This is going to be tough OP. It sounds like she has gone through her formative years with no boundaries and getting away with everything. This will be a shock for her and you.

Couldn't agree more with this. As a mum of an autistic child, who also has friends and acquaintances with ND kids or ND themselves, I'm sick to the back teeth of terrible behaviour being put down to ND. Not all bad behaviour is equal to being ND and most ND kids aren't poorly behaved in the way they describe.
Parents of ND kids hope to god their kids aren't ND purely due to the stigma still surrounding it and how hard life will become onto adulthood. On the contrary those with bad behaved kids do anything possible to excuse the behaviour as ND.

'being normal'?

Being normal?

You fail to take into account the welfare of the horse.