To think that ow genuinely fall for the lies their men spin?

[aimans]

Men who have affairs, leave or are kicked out, destroy their children's mental health, speak awfully about their wives/exes , ignore/ let down their kids regularly especially when an offer of sex/ drink etc comes up?
The majority of us know that these men are shit in every way but do you really think that their OW's believe their bullshit or underneath it all, are cut from the same cloth?

I think there's comfort in broad brushing and generalising all affairs but in reality that's a very 'low intelligence' way of seeing it. Every affair I've known hasn't fit neatly into a box. Sometimes the man has been a serial cheat who preys on women who clearly have attachment issues and are much younger. Sometimes the wife was never a good fit and frankly someone most people didn't like and the man only leaves once his head was turned. Some are true exit affairs and the new couple stay happily married for decades. It's all down the people and the circumstances. It's never ideal but so are lots of things. Human beings are messy creatures that come with their own history.

Well said!
Helping a man to cheat? What by accidentally falling on his cock? 😂

You only have to read the numerous threads on here to see that’s not unusual in any way for women to be trapped in miserable marriages.

@Mutters123 Quite. And there must be an equal amount of men, given the amount of threads that appear on here with women saying they are no longer interested in sex and before a good book and a cup of tea! So I imagine, it's definitely not all lies.

One of the few sensible views I’ve read on this thread.

I am very old-fashioned and think that if a couple are married, they have promised monogamy to each other, and that to have an affair is heinous. If things are so bad that one party is considering an affair, then there are other options available, ultimately divorce.

I worry that extra-marital sex is becoming normalised as a sort of 'fun' activity. The more it is seen to take place, the more people want to jump on the bandwagon, thinking that they are entitled to a share of the 'fun' too.

I think this gradual normalisation goes some way to answering your question @aimans in that they probably don't view marriage in the traditional way. One wonders, though, whether they would adopt the expectation of monogamy were they to 'win' their affair partner away from his wife.

I worry that extra-marital sex is becoming normalised as a sort of 'fun' activity.

There is absolutely nothing new about it. That doesn't mean it's OK, but it has been around for as long as marriage itself.

Sometimes the wife was never a good fit and frankly someone most people didn't like and the man only leaves once his head was turned

Jesus wept. It's the women who are cheated on who are 'never a good fit' and 'most people don't like'?

Personally, the people who lie and cheat as an excuse for having somehow married the 'wrong' person are the people I don't like. My ex pulled this shit on me - his friends never liked me therefore it was OK to have a long affair whilst knowlingly sleeping with me without contraception and creating children.

There is only one person in the wrong when it comes to affairs. Stop making excuses for them.

Yup. Look at the entire history of literature in all languages -- everything from ancient Greek satires to Chaucer and Bocaccio to La Princess de Cléves, Anna Karenina, Madame Bovary, Lady Chatterley's Lover, down to Sally Rooney's Conversations with Friends.

@Workworkandmoreworknow It's not 'the women who have been cheated' because they aren't a homogenous group. One of DH's friends married a woman who was an utter nightmare. No one said anything but her behaviour was shocking over the years. He very unexpectedly made off with an OW and he thought everyone would judge but very few did. We were just glad to see him get out of a miserable relationship. It wasn't the most graceful exit but at least he's out. He's been happily married to the 'OW' now for 15 years.

A few people have called it misogynistic to criticise the OW's behaviour. If you think about it, though, the OW's attitudes can be quite misogynistic indeed, with all their stereotypes of the "past it" wife, while she sees herself as the better alternative. Often times reducing the complex marriage bond to a vulgar competition of who can be newer and more exciting (of course the men also deserve blame for this, too).

And all the competing to be "chosen" by a man is not exactly feminist, either! You can't be an OW without at least some level of contempt for the wife, can you?

I realise OW can be very emotionally invested and hurt and I'm not trying to demonise them, just pointing out that their behaviour can be pretty misogynist when you think about it.

@Pickledperr

urgh. You’re just making excuses. Loads of people are nightmares but who gets the final say on how that’s defined? Loads of people manage to extrapolate themselves from difficult marriages without sleeping with other people. It never occurred to me to sleep with someone else and my ex was hardly a model husband.

And at what point was an affair OK? You cite 15 years. What about 15 weeks, 15 months? What does longevity have to do with it? Because an ex spouse remarries the affair partner, that somehow wipes out any of the upset caused? Children are somehow not affected because it lasted whatever time frame you deem appropriate?

You see to under estimate the impact of an affair. Don’t. It can happen to anyone. Even nice people.

I’m laughing at the excuse of the wife being disliked and unlikable.

News Flash… if the wife is so awful, get a divorce first and then go have sex with whoever you want as a single person. It’s really not that hard. Men just always take the easiest path available that costs the least amount of money.

I say this as someone who was in a terrible marriage but I never acted inappropriately. It’s not that hard to stay faithful. I say that as someone whose husband withdrew sex for 2 years and he slutshamed me for taking care of my own needs myself. That was a pivotal moment for me. I wasn’t the problem and therefore couldn’t fix the problem. He didn’t have the balls to ask for a divorce. Again, that work was left to me including drafting all the agreements.

I also know two couples who have ended up together following an affair.

Most men don't want to upset their entire family until they are certain that the OW is 'the one', so they have an affair. Not saying that it's the right thing to do, but it's not necessarily 'bullshit'.

He treated you like dirt and personally I wouldn't judge you if you had sought solace elsewhere.

@Aintnosupermum Exactly, sounds like you did the right thing and your track record and conscience is clear. Men and women who cheat cannot blame their partners at all. I don’t think it is smart, justified or desirable to do it back either When you can actually just do better and remove yourself completely.

I know a few people who did “cheat back” and then they just felt grubby and extra angry that not only had they been cheated on, but they’d effectively allowed their partners actions to push them towards in a way which wasn’t in accordance with their principles.

If you’re not morally okay with cheating, why revenge cheat when you can just say goodbye?

@Workworkandmoreworknow Of course the children were affected. But they were also affected by having a miserable father who kept plodding along in a marriage that was never going to work. Should he have left sooner? Of course. He met the OW and realised how much happier he could be. He had stayed in his miserable marriage 'for the kids' for ages. He wasn't just going to leave. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Some men who have affairs are utter pigs and some aren't. I just don't think one act defines a person. The breakdown of a marriage no matter how it goes is going to be hard on everyone.

It's never 'one act' that defines the person when they have an affair. It is the repeated choosing - over and over again - to lie, to decieve and to betray their partner.

Nor do I believe the breakdown of a relationship is as hard on the cheater as on the person they have betrayed. The cheat holds all the cards and has the script. Their partner is hit by a bolt out the blue on the cheater's schedule.

I think it's underestimated how many women out there actually know full well and don't give a shit about the wives and kids at home.

The bint mine has an affair with knew, even had the cheek to ask about my kids, still didn't stop her.

Irrespective of someone's sex, it's plain to see some humans have shitty non existent morals.

I think it's underestimated how many women out there actually know full well and don't give a shit about the wives and kids at home.

Possibly, but it'll be less than the 100% of cheating married men who know full well and don't give a shit about their own wives and kids at home.

I’ve been with a married man… I met him in the office I worked in, before me he had been with multiple women from the office- no mention of being married at all. I found out he was cheating on me, we ‘worked’ through it and then I got a message from his wife who was pregnant with twins. I blocked him on everything, left that office and continued to receive emails from him for about a year afterwards.

They worked through it and seem to be doing amazing together. I don’t snoop but my friend is his manager. Honestly, as hurt as I was at the time and undoubtedly his wife would’ve been hurt I’m glad it happened. It was a life lesson to me to not to believe so much crap or in effect be preyed on by a man 11 years my senior. I commend his wife, I couldn’t stomach the lies after a couple months let alone after 15 years!

@NonPlayerCharacter perhaps. But women cheat too 🤷🏼‍♀️

It's not a men vs women thing for me, it's just shit human beings.

I used to be believe women didn’t know or didn’t care to know but sometimes I think some women are so desperate for affection they believe anything.

I have a “friend”. She’s single with two children and has been with no end of men in the last 2 years. She comes crying to me everytime it goes wrong and I give the normal sympathy and whatnot but honestly it’s exasperating because it’s clearly obvious to me what scum they are but she’s so desperate for any scrap of love, she takes it. I try to steer her away but she doesn’t listen

Exactly! I’m laughing at all the ‘if he’s so unhappy then he should just leave the marriage’ comments. As if it’s that easy especially in a long marriage where kids are involved. It affects the whole family. The posters suggesting this would be the first ones ranting about the awful husband who has left the family because he is a selfish twat who doesn’t want to be married any more. Then there’s the whole other matter of friends and families trying to make them feel guilty/ trying to make them go back to the marriage etc. Divorce is horrible regardless of the reasons behind it.
Don’t get me started on the ‘marriage is for life’ bollocks! Are you seriously saying that someone should stay in a miserable and abusive situation just because they signed a bit of paper? 🙄

Of course women cheat too, but that's an entirely different point. They're blamed when they cheat and they're blamed when men cheat.

I’m laughing at all the ‘if he’s so unhappy then he should just leave the marriage’ comments. As if it’s that easy especially in a long marriage where kids are involved. It affects the whole family. The posters suggesting this would be the first ones ranting about the awful husband who has left the family because he is a selfish twat who doesn’t want to be married any more. Then there’s the whole other matter of friends and families trying to make them feel guilty/ trying to make them go back to the marriage etc

how does cheating make any of that better?