To think that ow genuinely fall for the lies their men spin?

[aimans]

Men who have affairs, leave or are kicked out, destroy their children's mental health, speak awfully about their wives/exes , ignore/ let down their kids regularly especially when an offer of sex/ drink etc comes up?
The majority of us know that these men are shit in every way but do you really think that their OW's believe their bullshit or underneath it all, are cut from the same cloth?

Fucking hell OP, what century am I in? (And I'm old)

Very few women could actually be stupid enough believe these lies. What they are doing when they spout the “he and his wife are just like roommates” rubbish he fed her, is creating a socially acceptable get out clause for their moral failing. Exactly the same energy as when late 20 somethings still living with their parents claim they are “saving for a house”

Who is to assume the OW or OM is not in a relatioship themselves? it is not always one single and one married/partnered, sometimes it is of a same sex affair

I mean a general 'who'

What about the women who stay with cheaters after they’ve been caught? They’ve arguably been lied to more. Why is that somehow more ‘acceptable’ and doesn’t make them ‘low value’.?

The OW is most likely not thinking of his wife and children, as she’s too busy thinking with her heart and groin. The same things that had his wife in a flutter when he was chasing her.

And if you spend enough time on MN, dating sites or other SM, you will soon find there’s no more single a man than the married man. He is everywhere and so available, she may not know for some time that he’s married.

This thread is the absolute pits of the earth. Women described as unattractive and plump? Low quality? Not the brightest? On heat? Goldiggers? Whilst at the same time calling for women to look out for each other, citing womanhood and sisterhood at the same time as spewing out these vile comments.
Nothing in this life is black and white. There are a million and one reasons why people have affairs. And before someone comes along saying 'ooh touched a nerve have we?' no I am not and I never have had an affair. However my mother did and I completely and utterly understand why she did it. I can see myself going down the same path in her situation.
I can never understand how people can see shades of colour and nuance in the huge range of life experiences that we all inevitably go through, but never this one. In MN land at least.

Too much of a sweeping generalisation OP. Like there are many reasons for people having an affair i the first place.

There is a special place in hell for those men and women who have affairs with family friends - the devastation that causes to so many people, divided loyalties and broken friendship/support circles - is a true level of narcissitic malevolence.

COI: the above is what happened to me. She wanted our lifestyle and thought EX supplied the financial aspect. She now realises that our comfortable life was provided by two "working adults who contributed equally. Once she figured that out, she made his life hell and he left her aswell!

I agree with @waterdusky and I have read all your replies thank you. I'm still able to have a different view to you.

1 women have affairs too and shatter families. This thread is utterly focused on men having affairs.

2 I'm capable of acknowledging that even if someone makes a poor decision at one part of their lives this doesn't equal they are vile, low value, poor quality. It means they made a poor choice. To me what counts is how they deal with it after.

3 my mother had an affair when married with 3 children. She left my dad for the OM. Whom was 12 years younger than her. Not married and no kids. 36 years later he stood sobbing on my and my sisters shoulder as we buried my mother. No having an affair was not the quality choice but they did go on to live.productive and sensible lives despite their start being rocky. My mother was not a bad poor quality low life. She made a poor choice and managed the consequences the best way she could after to be with the man who was the love of her life. The man my children call grandad. (They also call my father this)

So no I don't think it's this simple that being the ow/om = you are bad.. life is rarely black and white.

I think labelling the woman as having low self esteem, standards, a harlot, insert angry insult here is an easy way of releasing anger at other women, or the situation. I think it says far more about the person uttering them, than people involved in affairs.

Sure, low self esteem could sometimes be the case. Sometimes the OW or OM doesn't mean to fall in love, it just happens, and sometimes the OW just doesn't want the hassle or expectations of a committed relationship. Certainly I can understand why some women have the logic that with a married man, you are only getting the best version of him (minus the cheating, of course) without all the hassle of having to pick his socks up off the floor, cook him dinner, tell him the dog needs taking for a walk etc. Like it or lump it, a lot of men treat their mistresses extremely well. The men know full well if they don't, the OW will be gone on to the next one, unlike their long-suffering wife who keeps putting up with his nonsense.

Of course there are situations where the married man treats his OW like crap also - that's usually where love is involved.

I don't think women in general are stupid. Capable of behaving stupid, yes. But on the whole, I find other women to be very clever, and likely seeing through the shit that the wife can't, or refuses to see.

It's not always as cut and dry as the woman being a helpless wallflower and being used for sex. Some men are indeed predatory. I imagine the wife rarely, if ever comes up, unless love is involved?

What a vile thread.

Newsflash, just as many women have affairs as men, but how nice that the OP and so many others have started a thread which focuses solely on the OW rather than the man she’s cheating with.

Woman bashing isn’t a redeemable quality.

Especially when it’s supposedly being done by other women.

Take a long hard look at yourselves, because you ain’t so glamorous either.

I think cheating men often cast a wide net. I had an old school friend send me a message. His SM showed he was married but his message clearly showed he lacked boundaries and was hoping for ego boosting texts at least.

It just showed me he has very poor characteristics and I blocked him without replying. I hadn’t seen him in 20 years prior to the message - so I can only presume this is what he does to many women. Someone may fall for it. I am not special, he just tried his luck. I was probably one of a few that week.

I’ve worked with mainly men all my working career and this helps you see what nonsense some are prepared to come out with. I see married men who cheat as people with very poor character traits. Dishonest, lack of integrity, needs an ego boost, Poor self control, selfish, lacks boundaries, promises and their own words mean nothing to these men. No one forced them to marry or remain married. There was no gun to their head when they promised loyalty and to be faithful even in bad times. Why bother- if shagging about and not have responsibility is your thing that is okay - own it. Just don’t pretend you believe in monogamy when you don’t.

If their own words mean nothing to them then I have no interest in the words they say to me. So I do think they are poor quality men because they have poor character traits. They may be funny or good looking but the traits are also important. Life can be difficult so the traits are very important. I’d say the same about cheating women but I didn’t encounter as many. The one i encountered who was openly in a long term affair I do also question her integrity, honesty etc. She said wasn’t prepared to leave her husband as it would devastate him. I guess the 10 year plus affair might really be what devastates him. His marriage was blown up the minute she overstepped what she promised. He just didn’t know it yet. It’s not a great look for men or women. Skulking about.

The married cheats are certainly not men I would have flirted with or dated. I am not being anyones dirty secret!

If I was dating I wouldn’t entertain anyone who had cheated in their marriage. Same as I wouldn’t entertain someone who drink drives. Or who tells me he has ‘a crazy ex’. Or who doesn’t see his children regularly or expects their mum to provide all their clothing and do the proper parenting. Or who doesn’t pay maintenance.

I think some women date cheaters because it makes them feel special. Others because they don’t want anything serious and this works for them as he is disposable. Others must fall for the lines. Some are tricked into thinking he is single - I feel awful for those women.

I have been hit on by (far too many) married men and I just think they are gross and cheap and grim. It also affects how I think of them going forward. If they are prepared to deceive and lie to their loved ones why do they suddenly become honest and reliable at work or as a friend? Life is busy and time is limited I would prefer to spend time on people who’s values are more closely aligned to mine. Not waste it with a known liar.

As to why women or men stay - that’s probably for another thread. But I’m not sure why anyone would say they are low value. Cheating causes PTSD and trauma. I have friends who were cheated on, great women, strong, reliable and honest. Some stayed, some didn’t - I don’t question their values on loyalty and honesty though. I don’t judge her for choosing a man who had poor integrity and then trying to reconcile or divorce - both are valid choices. Her capacity to show grace and reconcile doesn’t mean she is low value - far from it. In my opinion Grace and forgiveness are admirable qualities in a person. I’m happy to have women or men like that in my life.

I do judge the husband who decided his wife deserved to lack agency and not have full transparency regarding her sexual health. Assuming the OW knows he is married then the OW knows he is sleeping around so she is making an informed choice about her std risk. His wife isn’t.

Why Ow's are eager to believe the bullshit is the exact same reason why countless women choose to marry and procreate with absolute wasters. We are desperate. We need to be in a relationship no matter what. There's the OW who is happy to stay in the background because the casual thing works for them but they are rare.
I know its not the done thing to say it out loud but it's true. We cling on to losers, accept crumbs and we are guilty sticking our fingers in our ears when they tell us who they are.
It's easy to blame the men, it absolves us of any responsibility. Societal pressure for women to get married and have children encourages us ignore red flags, a man being married is one of them!
You get the posters who blindly defend an OW, its all the man's fault and accuse others of misogyny who feel anger towards these women and yes i agree, the person who made the marriage vows is ultimately responsible, but my God, as women we need to set our standards higher. I would never cause such pain to another woman, ever. I wish more women felt like that. But then there's that desperation. It makes us put up with and believe all sorts of shite.
I say that word alot because the older I get the more I see just what we will tolerate to be in a relationship, any relationship. It's sad and it's only us that can change it.

I think the op is venting about an ow in her own life.

It's easy to blame the men

And yet barely anyone on here does.

And yet barely anyone on here does.

Facts.

They do when it comes to women talking about their experiences with an OW @NonPlayerCharacter . All of a sudden the men are quite rightly the target... Never like that on a thread about domestic drudgery or finances is it? Thats where the women are torn apart cos the poor men have to go to work and shouldnt be expected to do anything else. Anyway thats going off topic. This thread is about the other woman.

No, those women get held responsible for a man's commitments too. And if you think women are told to do all the shitwork on here because of a man's job, the most charitable explanation is that you're new here.

In all honesty, I believe that anyone is capable of being OM/OW, or having an affair.

I think that if the setting is right and the opportunity arises, most people will go for it, regardless of circumstances or consequences. And from then on, people just tell themselves what they want to hear, in order to make themselves feel ok about their actions.

I don't believe that people are inherently bad or good, and I also don't believe that it's a gender issue, or related to intelligence. Some people will consider the consequences and act accordingly, and others won't, and jump in feet first.

I've been on here on and off for 10 years, of course that's not why women are told to crack on with the shitwork, that was me simplifying for my own benefit. The misogyny on here is overwhelming yet interestingly all that goes out of the window (bar a few vile comments based on the OW looks, weight etc) when talking about the OW's role in an affair. Totally different to those threads where a woman is pulling her hair out because her OH does naff all in the house. Anyway I stand by what I said, someone desperate to be in a relationship will be willing to overlook almost anything. Even a marriage.

If you think OW aren't overwhelmingly blamed and held responsible for what MM do, and you think posters are told to just crack on with all the shitwork, then you haven't been paying any attention for all the years you claim to be here. Hell, you haven't paid attention to this thread. Honestly, it's such a distorted and false reading that I struggle to believe it's genuine and I definitely don't find it worth engaging with.

Interested in your thoughts on this OP?

Well, quite.

The question that also needs asking is why do so many WIVES believe the lies spouted by their husbands? Thread after thread on Mumsnet about women who take back their cheating husbands because they are going to change, they see the error of their ways...and then OH, a few months later they discover they're still in contact with the OW.

Surely if those women have a modicum of intelligence they'd run a mile, unless they are also of very very low value and poor quality.

Except that there is nothing 'low value' about believing a lying husband. Naive and with low self esteem, yes. But a person who helps another person to cheat is low value, with low morals, regardless of sex. I am rolling my eyes at people who are trying to make this into some kind of feminist thing.

Even if that's true, it's entirely irrelevant. OW can be shit on legs, it means nothing until the MM chooses her over his commitment - and then, what does that make him?

There are shit people in the world. We know this, we can't control it, we can only make commitments that we won't let those people into our marriage. That's literally why we promise fidelity, because we know we can't ask the world to do it for us.

If a person who "helps another person to cheat" is low quality, the person actually doing the cheating must be worse because they're actually committed. And why would a high value person choose to take a low value person back?

Either you define women's value and quality by the men they shag, or you don't. I suggest you don't.

It isn’t always lies though. I have plenty of friends (including myself) who openly admitted to living like room mates and being unhappy before ultimately divorcing. I don’t think I can think of one example where a happily married friend has been left. You only have to read the numerous threads on here to see that’s not unusual in any way for women to be trapped in miserable marriages.
I also have DC in their 20s and lots of their friends who are genuinely living at home because they are saving for a house. Have you seen how high mortgage rates are at the moment? You clearly live in a very different world to the majority of the rest of us!