For not allowing ex to take 1 year old to America

[MissNP196]

I have an 18 month old who my ex only started consistently having in November (he has her every Saturday, no overnight stay) which has been going well.

A few days ago, he suddenly announced that he would like to take her to America in April to celebrate his grandparents birthday. I said that as nice as it would be for her to meet her great grandparents, the trip is far too much, too soon, as she is only 1 and has never even spent a night with him. I feel this holiday would be extremely unsettling for her as she would be in an unfamiliar environment with unfamiliar people, without her mum.

Was my response unreasonable? Ex has responded angrily saying her will seek permission from court. Does anyone with experience of this know if this would likely be approved?

Why would they deem it the same when it's the complete opposite - parent who has looked after her every day of her life so far vs parent in name only who has met her a handful of times and doesn't contribute, including financially to her care? Equally sufficient parents should have equal rights

It really isn't the same as me taking her on holiday as she's been with me everyday of her life as opposed to her dad who she's only spent one day a week with since November!

So firstly family court don’t take any money into account that’s separate

secondly courts see both parents as equals

i have experience of this and dad got everything he asked for at court and the arguments from mum were exactly the same as yours

courts want the best for a child and most judges believe that the best thing for a child is for both parents to be in a child’s life equally
they go to town on anyone who tries to obstruct

But she's not obstructing? It's a ridiculous suggestion on his part

A court would see a mum using time difference for a two year old as excuse not go as a obstruction

The time difference is not the sole reason I don't think the trip is a good idea 😂

Just out of interest, would you be happy for your one year old to travel to America for 2 weeks with people she barely knows? @Stormyweathr

Yes of course in an ideal world, mums and dads are equals, however in this case, my ex has not been an equal parent.

just to summarise the point of me posting to you

• solicitors drag out a process to take your money
• give dad a chance to prove himself before saying no. if he is a dead beat dad then he himself will prove that he is not capable
• try to avoid court and be amicable as your child will suffer if you and dad cannot co-parent.
• if it does go to court remember that they don’t care about the issues you and dad have they look at the best for a child in the long run

I agree that the courts want to see both parents as equal. But I don't think that in this situation that's relevant as the dad clearly is NOT equal. Certainly in the case of my friend, the judge threw him out of court as there was no way it was in the interests of their young children to be separated from their mother for 2 weeks when he'd only done one overnight a month and routinely didn't turn up for his court approved contact.

Re the money - I don't know enough about how courts work but I'd imagine it would be at least a small factor albeit unlikely to be an actual LEGAL factor. So all things being equal, no CMS payments won't change the dial, but in the context of a father who has been largely absent etc, it might be an additional nail in the coffin as it were.

Eh? Have you read the thread, that's not why??? 🤔

Well done OP, ignore the naysayers this was definitely the right decision and no court would back your partner taking your little one abroad in April.

Op has done all of those things and actively said she has set out a plan for him to build up to more contact. Her childs father has had 18 months to mostly ignore her so far. Op has not obstructed anything.... Sorry to speak for you, op lol

I would be happy yes
as I know my child’s dad loves my child just as much as me and would keep them safe

its also a chance of a lifetime for a child and something I could never afford

I would miss them and struggle whilst they were gone but the conditions on taking them would be daily FaceTimes and dad to have enough money to move/rebook the flight home if the child really didn’t settle whilst they were there

It would not be in the child's 'emotional' well-being. I would be very wary about allowing this man, to take the child out of the jurisdiction of the UK courts. He has already shown disrespect for you, and your opinion about the welfare of your child. He is not paying child maintenance, but threatens you with the courts if he doesn't get his own way, he's a bully.! You risk him spitting his dummy and breaking off contact with the child. If he does, he proves he is immature and irresponsible, Does your child need a father like that?

That's not the scenario op gave though?

No it’s not but OP asked ME if I would be happy for MY child to go abroad

... With people they barely know, was her question...

I'm glad your child has a good father, but it's an entirely different thing you've answered. Would you be happy letting your child go on holiday with a baby sitter that's sat for them approx 8 times to a different continent at 18 months old?

There's absolutely no way I would allow this. I bet he won't return

If they were with their dad then yes I would happy

Except, in this case, the child barely knows the dad either. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

DH took 7 month old DS for 2 weeks to another country when I went back to work after maternity leave to see his family. I had no issue with that - he was an active and involved father with whom DS had a strong bond. He took him again when DS was about 2.5 and again when he was 5. Each time was completely fine.

DS is now 13, and him and a friend are talking about DS joining their family on a 2 week trip. I'm hesitant because 2 weeks with a family he doesn't know that well is a big deal.

Context is everything.

If you read through all my other posts my point was to give dad a chance to prove himself before saying no and I gave advice to try and be amicable to avoid court if you can as solicitors will financially drain both parents

I am giving my opinion which is the whole point of MN!! and I have seen kids emotionally scared because of things that have gone between parents with a child stuck in the middle

give dad a chance to prove himself

he’s had chances. He didn’t engage at all for nearly the first year of his child’s life. He won’t provide somewhere suitable for the child to sleep so he can have the child overnight. He’s flaky about paying child support. What exactly does “proving himself” mean to you outside those examples?

I think we are struggling as the op has already said she's doing all those positive things which you haven't acknowledged and you mentioned the time difference as the reason...

As in tell him tell him it’s not a no BUT

in order for you to feel comfortable with the child spending two weeks abroad with him he knows to get to know the child fully by spending more time with them, he needs to prove he can have the child overnight successfully and he needs to prove he has responsibility ie paying for his own child

Have you read the OPs posts? That’s exactly what she has done!

She hasn’t said no, never. She’s said not now, but if things improve then maybe in the future.

I have read your posts. I've also read OP's posts. This man was no t around for a year. But she still actively encouraged a relationship when he reappeared. He does not pay maintenance, but she still actively encourages a relationship. She has said she is happy for him to do overnights... once he gets the bare minimum of supplies in to make this doable but he has not done that.

This trip is in APRIL. Conceivably, 6 weeks away. On what planet can this man "prove himself" and build the necessary skills and relationship in that time period.

If I'm understanding OP correctly, if he said he wanted to build up to this next year, she'd be fine with it. It's the fact that this is imminent and he's still never had the child for a single overnight that is the problem. Why is that hard for you to see?

I don't actually disagree with your overall perspective at a big picture level. But you're just wilfully ignoring the specifics of this situation.