For not allowing ex to take 1 year old to America

[MissNP196]

I have an 18 month old who my ex only started consistently having in November (he has her every Saturday, no overnight stay) which has been going well.

A few days ago, he suddenly announced that he would like to take her to America in April to celebrate his grandparents birthday. I said that as nice as it would be for her to meet her great grandparents, the trip is far too much, too soon, as she is only 1 and has never even spent a night with him. I feel this holiday would be extremely unsettling for her as she would be in an unfamiliar environment with unfamiliar people, without her mum.

Was my response unreasonable? Ex has responded angrily saying her will seek permission from court. Does anyone with experience of this know if this would likely be approved?

no. because. hows that child focused.?in HER best intrest?... ? Hes being ridiculous. selfish twat. She wont remember- meet the great grandparents(just the trauma anxiety of sudden longhaul flight seperation and no familiar face?-twattery)
Yes YOU CAN say no. so will court. You could be eurotunnels most frequent border crossers- HES ONLY just showed up. emptyhanded.
tell him to get her a stars n stripes dress surround her wi balloons and let her blow a candle cake out n clappahandies birthday video.
grt grandparents be just as delighted with that "effort"
is he on birth cert?
cheeky git

Why did u have a child with someone you dont trust to be want anywhere near your child without you lookimg over his shoulder

@MissNP196 That is correct. If he took your daughter out of the country without your permission (written) then he would be committing the criminal offence of abduction. You could contact the police who could then alert the airports to stop him leaving the country.

The court would definitely consider all those things and particularly the emotional needs of your daughter at the moment, whereby she is solely reliant on you for comfort and her all round care. It would be emotionally harmful to take her away from you for that long without having a solid bond established with her father yet. He has essentially only been in her life for 4 months which is nothing.

I'm not a lawyer but I've been through the family court around 10 times (me as a mother and DH regarding his son) and that advice lines up with what I know about the court system.

When my DH son was just over 1 year old, the court didn't feel it would be in his best interests to stop overnights and this is even with DH living with his son for the first 10 months of his life. The court said that overnights can be built up over time when his son was able and ready to cope with it.

I honestly don't think a court would allow him to do it.

I wouldn't be happy about him taking her given he has never had her over night.

BUT... if he doesn't like this then he will do the same if you ever wish to take her abroad and also say no.

Can you go with them?? She stays with you and can go for the day to meet them?

OP has already said he walked out 10 days after she was born. How could she have predicted that? Then he didn't want to know until last November when he suddenly wants to take his daughter to America.

Then make sure you have this fully recorded, saved on an email exchange as others have suggested. You don’t want to end up in court with a she says/ he says argument. If it goes to court you want clear, dated evidence of his shortcomings as a parent, lack of maintenance, lack of regular contact, lack of willingness to prepare for overnight stays, his inconsistent behaviour eg job changing, irrational arguments about extended contact ( comparing your holiday with seeing grandparents with whom she has no previous involvement)

Uk passports yes, Irish passports no, they do require both parents to sign

Legally, yes it is abduction if there is no Child Arrangements Order stating the child lives with mum but the father did not lodge an objection at the time and he wasn't involved in his daughter's life at that point.

Absolutely no way.
You are her main parent...I can't imagine the confusion she would feel.
First of all a bloody long flight to be considered, how will he cope?
Then time away from you with strange people and an inconsistent Dad...
Very odd he has suggested this in my opinion!

Actually they have never been able to access a parents bank account before. If a parent says they have no money they just had to believe them. Now they will be able to access a parents bank account and check if they do have money. Also they did threaten my exh with conversation of his passport when he was claiming to be self employed but actually working for an employer. After I got the name of his employer it took a bit of time but in the end got his employer to take money from his salary. I had to write to my MP to get it pushed along though.

I agree with you. Abs no way at that age and 100% no way in these circumstances anyway.

You dont need permission to take your child abroad if you have PR. So mum wouldnt ever have to ask his permission. But if hes on birth cert be also has pr so same applies. If he isnt on it he would have to go to court.

We recently got a new passport as believed it was stolen- zero contact with birth parent now- Howevwr we had to get birth parent to write and sign to say the agreed the passport was lost as they were the original signature on the passport when it applied for.

@Jomasell If there is no child arrangements order then someone taking the child abroad needs permission from everyone who has PR, even the mum.

No you dont. If you have pr you can go for up to 3 months. You do t need permission but the other parent can go to court to stop it if there reason.

@Jomasell Are you talking about England and Wales law? If so then yes, permission is needed from all who have PR.

C100 Application.
Specific Issue Order - to stop him from taking her out of the country.
Live with you, and spend time with him.

I completely agree with PP’s that his request is ridiculous-he hasn’t even looked after your DD for one night, she barely knows him! Tbh, I wouldn’t let him take her on holiday locally until he’s looked after her regularly overnight, let alone abroad.

Stay firm, OP, he needs to demonstrate consistent parenting before he can take her abroad. He can threaten court and waste his money if he likes, I can’t imagine that any judge would give him permission to do this, given your DD’s age and his parenting track record.

Around 8 years ago my ex partner asked to take my son on holiday to florida, this was also a visit to grandparents. And it was allowed by the judge, we were in court over child contaxt not on that specific issue. To avoid having to return to court his lawyer asked that the visit be considered there and then. They also ruled I would sign the passport forms and not attempt to disrupt the process in any way. My son was 3 and had only just begun contact overnight.

You may want to prepare for the court order being granted

That’s interesting that only one parent’s consent is needed in the UK. Where I live, both parents’ permission is needed and it does create a lot of problems for single parents. Malicious refusal is common, although I do have a friend who has legitimate worries her ex will take her children to a middle eastern country not signatory to The Hague Convention and not return. So she refused his passport requests.
I renewed DC’s passport recently and I still had to get Ex’s permission even though he will be 18 in a few days and was given a 10 year adult length passport.

I think there is far too much of a risk here, it’s not a short flight is it(!) and he hasn’t dealt with any middle of the night wake ups and can’t get back to sleep! Even the best behaved children are going to be a challenge for someone who hasn’t got a clue!

Just set the scene for him, it’s all going to be A LOT of hard work from him. He hasn’t even bothered to even get a travel cot to allow him to have her stay at his, how is he going to arrange a bassinet seat on plane and food and nappies and anything for a potential delay, cots at all accommodation, car seat and buggy on flight. Honestly, sounds like he hasn’t got a clue!! Sounds like he is just expecting to rock up to the airport with her like a normal adult holiday.

Is there any chance you are able to go with them. Seems really sad for the great grandparents not being able to see their grandchild due to age and illness.
I understand the worry for you but it is also your child's family.

@3plusUs Meeting their great-grandchild would be nice for them, but she won’t remember the visit, she’s simply too young. What will make a difference to their familial relationships is a reliable Dad who parents her consistently. I wonder whether the great-grandparents know how uninvolved her father is…probably not.

I have been through the court with my ex and it seemed to me that their main concern was that our child had a relationship with us both. Once that was in place they didn't seem overly interested in the minor details. Currently your ex is getting regular contact with the opportunity to move on to overnights. You aren't frustrating contact, it's the distance and duration that concerns you which is reasonable. Contact for our son started at around the same age and worked up from a contact centre to days, to longer days, one night, two nights. This happened over about 6 - 8 months ish from memory. After that he would take him for 3 days on holiday, then 4 etc. Now my son is 11 and for the last few years I have let him decide what he is comfortable with. Our regular agreement is that he has him every other weekend for 48 hours. We are also meant to hand over at 4pm on Christmas day but that never happens. He is supposed to look after our son for half the holidays but he doesn't, only when it suits him to do that. I generally let him have longer weekends if our son fancies it. It does become easier when they are a bit older and can voice an opinion. When they are little it's upsetting because you don't know how they feel.

My son loves his Dad and vice versa but he says he hates being moved all over the place every couple of weeks. His Dad doesn't have a permanent home so he is taken to the homes of 2 extended family members and on longer weekends he goes to different family member's homes. He likes seeing them but he doesn't feel comfortable without having his own bed and it's becoming an issue with refusals to go. It's hard on the kids and she is way too young in my opinion. It might have been different if she had always been around him.

Good luck x x

@bruford
It's not about whether she remembers years to come, it's about living in the moment.
I took my daughter to Florida when she's 2, yea she doesn't remember it but the smiles on her face when she was there, is sketched in my memory. She was so happy and loving every moment.
Yes the dad may need to sort things out a bit but doesn't he and the grandparents also deserve to have those moments.
Which is why, I suggested if there is anyway the mum can go also, so she's there if needed.