Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For not allowing ex to take 1 year old to America

237 replies

MissNP196 · 12/02/2024 09:26

I have an 18 month old who my ex only started consistently having in November (he has her every Saturday, no overnight stay) which has been going well.

A few days ago, he suddenly announced that he would like to take her to America in April to celebrate his grandparents birthday. I said that as nice as it would be for her to meet her great grandparents, the trip is far too much, too soon, as she is only 1 and has never even spent a night with him. I feel this holiday would be extremely unsettling for her as she would be in an unfamiliar environment with unfamiliar people, without her mum.

Was my response unreasonable? Ex has responded angrily saying her will seek permission from court. Does anyone with experience of this know if this would likely be approved?

OP posts:
pinkcathat · 13/02/2024 13:25

I wouldn't worry too much OP. If he doesn't pay child maintenance he's hardly going to put his hand in his pocket to take you to court over this. Also even if he did, I don't think they would authorise it anyway. I would definitely be putting a claim for CM in though.
Also does he actually realise what is involved in looking after a toddler all day everyday. I doubt he would take her if he realised that actually it is a lot of work.

Longdarkcloud · 13/02/2024 14:53

@MissNP196 You say that “ yes, of course” you’d let you child go for “a trip of a lifetime”.
For Heaven’s sake —- at 18 months! What sort of experience would an infant get from a long haul trip to the US to meet strangers? What new sights would compensate for being separated from her primary caregiver and the familiarity of routines? Would compensate for long term, attachment problems?
If you care to research the accepted data you will see that even carefully planned separation of mother and child with loved substitutes can have a negative affect and abrupt separation can have a permanent effect on the child’s feelings of security and I have personal experience of this.
Until relatively recently this area of child psychology was neglected on the premise of the child not remembering and perhaps good and compliant behaviour during the separation but thankfully we know now more about the development of the brain and the importance of attachment.

SnappyJadeJoker · 13/02/2024 15:31

Stormyweathr · 13/02/2024 11:05

I think instead of a straight no you should give him a chance to prove that he is consistent and reliable for your child (as in tell him if overnights go well etc then yes) also just to add technically you would of needed his permission to take your child on holiday (as he has pr and you do not have a child arrangement order)

if he takes you to court this holiday will probably will be ordered unless there is a massive concern over dad and the welfare of the child

talking from experience here of a lot of court battles over a child, the judges don’t look at anything but what’s best for a child, even not having a cot etc wouldn’t be a reason to not allow overnight stays, if they have a place to sleep then dad should be allowed a overnight

the courts hate parent conflicts and will favour the parent who are the most co-operative and the least confrontational

This is my own experience. As I already posted I was apprehensive buy not completely against my sons father taking him to florida for two weeks to see his parents (Mt child's grandparents) it was raised at court and the judge decided he could take him. And I was to sign the passport which I did. The holiday went fine and now age almost 12 he has been on many more trips to America Mexico and Europe with me and his Dad.

My son was 3 and had also only just started regular contact. It was granted anyway. So best prepare for this outcome for everyone involved

contrary13 · 13/02/2024 16:24

It'd be a resolute "no" from me, too.

My ex was an active/involved parent to our son as he grew up (he's now an adult, so sorts any contact with his father out himself, and has done since he was 15 and I took a huge step back because of the stress my former "in-laws" were creating...) - but he has never spent a night in our son's company from birth. Son is now 19. When he was 6, his aunt got married at the other end of the country - we live in the SE, the wedding was in Yorkshire sort of a distance. Obviously, she invited my son and yes; it would have been nice if he'd been there... but there was no way that I felt comfortable about allowing it.

Firstly, there was no inclination on ex's part to even start the process of overnights with our son. He had suffered a traumatic brain injury at the hands of my ex-MIL a few months prior to the "oh, yeah, [SIL] is getting married and I want to take him hours away from you, for 4 days... it's going to be great; we're all planning on getting absolutely hammered!" conversation, and consequently, he was having night terrors and was extremely clingy to me/his nightly rituals. Ex had no clue how to deal with either of these things... because he didn't ever endure them (and I don't use that word lightly). Our son slept in my bed for months, as a result of the TBI. Secondly, it was dropped on me with short notice - if I remember right, maybe a fortnight before the wedding, like DS was an afterthought (ex had a toddler with the OW at the time and, possibly, a new baby, so I could be gracious and go "sleep deprivation, ex simply forgot..."). It felt like DS was required to look cute in the photos. Had DS' older (full) sister been invited (who was 13 or 14 at the time) I would have had more confidence in saying "yes" - familiar face for him, she knew his routine, would have been sober and therefore capable of keeping him out of mischief whilst their father, uncle and grandparents got "absolutely hammered". But she wasn't. At all. Don't actually know why, but suspect it was because she was furious with ex about the way he told me he'd been having an affair (on the day the then-toddler was born)... and she was at that awkward "Ugly Duckling" stage and wouldn't have fitted ex-SIL's criteria for the photos... Secondly, ex refused to be on either birth certificate and paid £5 a week maintenance towards their upkeep.

Surprisingly, perhaps, given the getting blotto at weddings/assaulting my small child/photo prop situations, his family are middle-class (but think they're upper-class 😂) and I couldn't trust them with my child's safety. So I said "fuck off" in a very polite fashion, and gritted my teeth through their whining for the next nine years. Not once did they ever suggest what they could actually do to permit me saying "yes" to DS going on holiday with them. They did, however, write in his 18th birthday card (which arrived 2 months late...) that "now" he could get a passport and "go on holiday with" them. DS has a passport, they knew he had a passport because I've taken both of my children abroad - as has my mother, without me... and it's never been mentioned again. Despite their having been off skiing and to visit relatives in sunnier climes, several times. And yes; DS would go with them, if they paid. They expect me to do that, however. So in hindsight, I am still confident that I made the right call.

@MissNP196 - you're absolutely doing the right thing. Just keep a paper trail to prove that he's all mouth and no trousers, as they say. And know that because you are putting your baby's best interests at the core of this situation, and he blatantly isn't, and you're not telling him an outright "no", just "not right now, lets build up to it..." you are actually showing him what being a real parent is all about. Your DC will notice who is the one parenting them... and who isn't. Mine definitely did.

ilovebreadsauce · 13/02/2024 17:52

People don't seem to get that she belongs as much to her father as to the op.

When she was newborn the ip would have had to learn how to care for her and thats what her father will do
I think it makes sense to cooperate or he may make life hard for you by keeping her adter his access visits and certainly withholding permission for you to take her on holiday abroad.

TinaMariaW · 13/02/2024 18:56

I would be worried that he plans to keep the child in America.

24hrCarer · 13/02/2024 19:10

ilovebreadsauce · 13/02/2024 17:52

People don't seem to get that she belongs as much to her father as to the op.

When she was newborn the ip would have had to learn how to care for her and thats what her father will do
I think it makes sense to cooperate or he may make life hard for you by keeping her adter his access visits and certainly withholding permission for you to take her on holiday abroad.

I am usually a very strong advocate for fathers being involved and having equal access to their children as the mother. However, in this case, OPs daughter is extremely young and has only ever known the security of her mother.

Based upon psychological research, it could actually do the child emotional harm taking her away from her mum for a lengthy period of time. The attachment bond is formed in the first 2 years and is essential to the child's emotional well-being.

Father should definitely be involved but he needs to build it up slowly over a period of time. He can't expect to see his daughter once a week for a couple of hours and then suddenly take her away from mum for a whole week to a different country. That would not be in the child's best interests.

If the dad had regular access from birth and had 50/50 including overnights then there likely wouldn't be an issue but that is not the case here.

BruFord · 13/02/2024 19:57

TinaMariaW · 13/02/2024 18:56

I would be worried that he plans to keep the child in America.

I would if he had citizenship and therefore his daughter would also be eligible for it- but he doesn’t, thank goodness. He’d be in a huge amount of trouble as soon as her Mum informed the police.

contrary13 · 13/02/2024 22:50

ilovebreadsauce · 13/02/2024 17:52

People don't seem to get that she belongs as much to her father as to the op.

When she was newborn the ip would have had to learn how to care for her and thats what her father will do
I think it makes sense to cooperate or he may make life hard for you by keeping her adter his access visits and certainly withholding permission for you to take her on holiday abroad.

Surely, though, its more a case of parents belonging to the child, rather than the other way around? I own a pair of shoes - but, I've not once thought that I've owned my 27 or 19 year old human beings... because they're not pets or property... And yet do I know that I belong to them, heart, body and soul? Yes. Without any doubt.

Children have rights, parents have responsibilities.

The OP's ex, like so many (my own included), hasn't worked this out yet, One way or another, though, he will - and hopefully not to the baby's detriment. Not every separated father is a deadbeat, and it's important to remember this - my 27 year old's boyfriend has a 5 year old, that he didn't want, but who he has absolutely stepped up for in the last few years after a wake up call. He's not perfect, because no parent is, but unlike the OP's ex, he has at the very least insisted on overnights and bought a fold out bed for his child/pays maintenance/spends time with her twice a week...

doodoodahdah · 13/02/2024 23:12

So ex is American? Was your child's birth registered with the US embassy? Do they have a US social security number and passport? Any US citizen (which your child is, if their dad is) entering the US, must do so using a US passport. This is also way too last minute to organise and will be stupidly expensive for him.

Toadstool1985 · 13/02/2024 23:23

doodoodahdah · 13/02/2024 23:12

So ex is American? Was your child's birth registered with the US embassy? Do they have a US social security number and passport? Any US citizen (which your child is, if their dad is) entering the US, must do so using a US passport. This is also way too last minute to organise and will be stupidly expensive for him.

No. He isn't.

Dolphinsong · 14/02/2024 15:32

MissNP196 · 13/02/2024 11:37

The time difference is not the sole reason I don't think the trip is a good idea 😂

Just out of interest, would you be happy for your one year old to travel to America for 2 weeks with people she barely knows? @Stormyweathr

Yes of course in an ideal world, mums and dads are equals, however in this case, my ex has not been an equal parent.

Exactly this OP. There is absolutely no way a court would permit a baby to jet off to America with a father who has not shown consistency in the childs upbringing, especially when he's practically a stranger. Of course there should be equal parenting and then and then only should privileges such as holidays be permitted.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page