For not allowing ex to take 1 year old to America

[MissNP196]

I have an 18 month old who my ex only started consistently having in November (he has her every Saturday, no overnight stay) which has been going well.

A few days ago, he suddenly announced that he would like to take her to America in April to celebrate his grandparents birthday. I said that as nice as it would be for her to meet her great grandparents, the trip is far too much, too soon, as she is only 1 and has never even spent a night with him. I feel this holiday would be extremely unsettling for her as she would be in an unfamiliar environment with unfamiliar people, without her mum.

Was my response unreasonable? Ex has responded angrily saying her will seek permission from court. Does anyone with experience of this know if this would likely be approved?

The US is a signatory of the Hague Convention

Yeah I know but a Father who has had his DD overnight, wasn't really around for the first year and often skips paying maintenance isn't a goid enough father to be taking his DD to a foreign country. If he's had an American Passport would make more risky. I know that in America the OP would be able to apply to get her DD back but I've seen threads in the past where Women have had to go through The Hague Convention, and threads from Women where they can't, and it's a traumatic experience all round.

Hard no! One day a week and no overnight stays for 3 months? Not to mention the experience of a long haul flight without mummy for comfort.

Either he pay for you to go too or not at all.

I have already agreed to overnight stays as he mentioned that a month ago. However, I said that before he has her overnight, he needs to make sure he was all the things she requires (e.g. cot, toys etc - none of which he has!) since that conversation, he hasn't bought up overnight stays again

God he's looking worse with every post. Did you put that you're willing to let him have her overnight but he needs somewhere appropriate for her to sleep for naps and nighttime and a buggy and car seat in writing to him via text or email?

Yes it is - a weekend is two days - presumably the Ex is going for longer than that.
gradually would mean an overnight for a few weeks then two, then a long weekend and there isn’t time. He might not even manage?

@CadyEastman yes, mentioned all of that in a text conversation

Keep all communication you have with him as it may be needed for evidence later down the line.

You sound like a very reasonable and fair mother and I completely understand why you don't want your child to go at this point in time.

Absolutely not! She's too young and he's not committed enough to take her on such a big trip. The court would not approve of it anyway. What a selfish man he is to think it's okay anyway.

Oh please, let him strop. He won’t take you to court if he can’t afford child maintenance or a cot for his child. Stand firm and let him just make threats because that’s all they are.

Yeah building up to it, starting with 1 night a week for a few weeks, then maybe he can take baby away for a couple of nights. But to America? Hell no

I can guarantee that his family are putting pressure on him for this, he doesn't really want to take her.

It's totally unreasonable for him to have her for 2 weeks, in anther country when he's never even had her overnight once. Absolutely ridiculous.

If it's any consolation, I had a friend in a similar position - he was supposed to see the children EOW and every Wednesday. But seldom managed it - I think he did one Wednesday and would sometimes turn up for weekends, but when he did he would arrive late and drop them early etc etc. He took her to court because him and his new girlfriend wanted to take the DC on a holiday of a lifetime for 2 weeks. The judge laughed at him and suggested that before he starts planning big 2 week holidays, it would be nice if he actually turned up for his agreed contact time.

I wouldn’t entertain the idea and I’m with my DH, who is a very present father 😀

Our girl would hit the roof if she woke up and I was not around. … imagine a whole continent away! She’s also 18mons, has been to many countries already a is bf. No way her dad would Even Suggest this, tbh. Your ex is BVVVVVU.

He sounds like he's attempted to play the long game but got impatient.

Did his sudden interest in regular meets happen after he was aware of the celebration in America?

She's not a show pony.

Who is he planning on handing her over to when he wants to get drunk/sick of 24/7 parenting for a week?
If his family are paying for his holiday, who will be paying for her nappies etc when she's out there?

Yanbu

Get court details sorted asap. He does not have her best interest at heart.

This sounds incredibly stressful for you, how awful. I would go straight to your local Citizen’s Advice Bureau for immediate support. Good luck.

FYI - just to clarify, I don't think it's a great idea for this uninvolved dad to take his one year old on a trip to the States. I just wanted to clarify that the US is a signatory to the Hague Convention.

Also, if he was a US citizen, which OP's ex isn't, he couldn't just get a passport for his child. If the child qualified he'd still need to get OP's permission and, if they are unmarried, he'd need to be financially supporting his child.

I agree with a couple of other people. He only started wanting regular contact in November, because he was invited to the Celebration in April and the Grandparents (or others) put pressure on him to take your daughter so they can see her

The advice given by others (Maintenance application, and keeping copies of all interactions between the two of you and being factually polite and focussing on what's best for your daughter without getting angry in tone) is all good advice. No way will he get a court hearing between now and April - and it would be highly unlikely that they would say 'yes' even if he did!

She's way too young, she only started seeing him regularly a couple of months ago, and she's never stayed with him overnight. YANBU to say no at all. Even if she was used to overnights with him, it would still be too much to take her to America. She won't really understand what's happening or why you aren't there with her - plus the time difference will really mess with her sleep patterns and routine, which would be very hard for one adult who is also jet-lagged to manage alone, and even more so if that adult doesn't usually deal with her overnight or when she's ill or hasn't slept or whatever.

Look, it doesn’t matter what court might or might not do - it’s not going to change your position right now is it…?! I mean - if lots of people here said “well maybe court would/might side with him” would you just hand her passport over and tell him to book a ticket?! Absolutely not.

So in one sense don’t try to worry too much about what might happen and just stick to your guns. Of course 1 is too young to be taken abroad for a week with a virtual stranger.

He can’t afford CM but can take her to the US and bring you to court to make that happen?! That’s not going to fly with a judge.

Try to limit the amount you engage with him about this and in general as he sounds as though he could become a massive time and energy drain. Don’t ‘offer’ him anything to ‘make up’ for saying no to this (eg overnights etc). Just say no, she’s too young and they haven’t yet built a relationship.

At some point in the next few years you are going to need some legal advice to make sure your position is as strong as possible, or in case he suddenly starts being even more impossible. But if you and your child are lucky he will get bored and just send the CM, have a minimal amount of contact time and leave you to it. (Obviously him being a supportive co-parent would be ideal, but it seems unlikely that will happen).

No way would I let my child go away with an ex who barely knows her.
Even in a few years I wouldn't allow it. Nor would I allow overnights. How would they be good for her? they aren't, it's just for his gratification.

I’d say no, happy for it to be debated in court and leave it at that. He’ll have to demonstrate he’s prepared / has regularly had her overnight etc.

if he can’t even be bothered to provide a cot for her and have her overnight then it sounds likely he won’t get his shit together to make a court application.

YANBU
He sounds like a flake and I honestly would be concerned about her well-being in another country . Day visits are one thing but full on 24/7 care is stressful if you aren’t used to it

I imagine the DD will be going to US some time in the next 17 years and before hell freezes over - just now now

His parents are probably paying for it as they want to see their grandchild (and son)

Nope nope nope no no no!

He will not go to court, but do get yourself in a watertight legal position (I’m no lawyer, but there has been lots of advice so far)

I wouldn’t even let my DH take our children overseas without me and we all live together. The children would hate it!

Thanks all for your replies. You have reassured me that I'm making the right decision.

My only concern is him reporting her passport as lost/stolen, getting a new one and just taking her.