My fiancé has asked me to lie about childrens religion to his parents

[Quickrunner91]

Fiance has asked me to lie about the religion of our future children to his family.

My fiancés family are very religious. We are not particularly religious. When we have children, we’d like to show them all different religions but allow them to make their own choices.

My fiancés family lives abroad, but he’s asked if we go to see them with children we may have in future, that we lie that we’re raising the children a certain religion.

Am I wrong to feel a little annoyed about this? I want things to go smoothly but at the same time I don’t see why I should have to lie about my own children

It depends on where your red lines are.

We’re in a very similar situation, but my family are quite religious too (Christian). We’re not religious ourselves but wanted to keep the peace. Our dc is baptised to appease my mum (it was a nice party for us 😄), my dh’s family don’t know about this and I suppose just assume that dc is raised within the Islamic faith. Dh also told them we had a nikah (we didn’t as he couldn’t be bothered to arrange it although I had agreed to do it). We were ‘lucky’ that we got married during covid so no family could attend because of travel restrictions.

Tbh it’s not that hard, we only see his family once a year at most. I think both sets of parents must realise we aren’t religious, they’re not stupid. But no one said anything and everyone is perfectly nice to each other. Also, you’d be surprised how much grandparents are willing to overlook once grandchildren come
into the picture, especially when they don’t get to see them often.

The bottom line is that it can work. The important thing is that the two of you are on the same page. We agreed before we had kids that we’d let them decide in terms of religion, but I knew we had to baptise them or my mum would never have let it go. Dh also asked for the nikah (which didn’t happen in the end), so we both compromised.

Ask your dp to paint you an accurate picture of how he sees this playing out and how far the pretend has to go. Is it just saying the dc are Muslim if asked or
will they need to learn how to read the Quran in Arabic and any boys be circumcised? Also, what will be expected of you when you visit your in-laws?

What are your views on circumcision? Would you be happy to chop off parts of any future boys you have to keep the family happy?

Hi op,
you need to think about your partner as a whole, all the information you know about him,has he always been non religious, or has that lifestyle changed because of travelling abroad? how long you’ve known him? Are his friends / childhood friends, a mix of both?

for the sake of appeasing his parents , will he want the children to learn to pray? Or read Surahs?

Nothing is ever black and white
My long distant uncle who is Muslim, but not religious , now in his 70s , married someone who is not Muslim. They had an understand that worked, she wasn’t expected to follow the religion by him. But everyone could see that, there was no
hiding it and they come to family events as they are.

I have a uni friend whose parents , whilst religious, bought her up to follow the western lifestyle.
she married her Irish sweetheart , they had an ‘Islamic’ wedding for the extended family.
However, that’s it - her son hasn’t got a Muslim name , they don’t follow the religion, celebrate Xmas with both sets of parents , but she will
sometimes fast during Ramadan and celebrate Eid with her family.
this was probably discussed extensively.

As did another girl friend of mine, who wasn’t Muslim when she was dating her teenage boyfriend . He asked her would she look into Islam- they were very much young teenagers in love But she didn’t want to be part of a religion she didn’t believe in. she spent a few years visiting the local mosque independent of him and decided in her twenties to convert first. They have children now and follow the religion together and she will still follow the religion if they got divorced.

If your fiancé’s family are religious and have no idea that he is not, they will expect many different things from the onset for the children ,
if you have any Muslim friends, I would advise finding out about all of these expectations and talking these things through.
Even after you have discussed them - he really should tell his family that you will not be following it.
That should be an indication of how the children are raised.

There’s a much bigger issue here, your husband is willing to lie to his parents. People he allegedly cares so much for he needs to lie to make them happy - whats to stop him lying to you in the future to make you happy. I’d back away now.

This isn’t about them and their religious views etc this is about how easy lying comes to him.

It won't work. Once there are actual children, they will start to say things like, "Why does Grandad pray before meals?" (Or whatever it is.)

Loudly, and in the presence of the grandparents.

I'm also intrigued by these very religious people who'd be shocked if you lived together before being engaged, but are fine with it then, even though you're still not married.

Your H to be doesn’t like to his parents to make them happy, he lies because it’s the path of least resistance and he can avoid difficult conversation. Do not be surprised when that logic get employed elsewhere (with you). The fact that this a suggestion, suggests he isn’t the mature/ authentic adult you need him to be.

He needs to sort his shit with his parents before he marries you.

I can't believe you and your DH are so weak that you're doing all this nonsense!

Ridiculous!

Do you want to spend the rest of your life on eggshells, worrying you or your children might say or do something 'wrong' in your ILs eyes?

Lies breed lies. That's no way to live. Unless your DP is able to have an honest conversation with them about how you wish to live your lives and not allow them this kind of control you'd he better off separating now, before bringing children into it.

This sounds like one of those cases where someone has a ridiculous idea about what they'll do when they have kids but in reality won't work for a minute. Is he actually the kind of person to make a 5 year old lie? Can you seem him actually expecting everyone to play along with that?

As someone who has children, I can 100 per cent guarantee that his idea is unworkable as your children will grass you up. Your children will have to maintain the lie too, and young children are terrible at lying.

It’s also u fair to ask them to maintain this pretence.

Not read many PP but there is an inheritance question in Muslim countries. Your DP knows one has to be Muslim to inherit assets there.

I don't know where he is from but I think that's really relevant here. Assuming that his parents are from a cultural background where being non-religious is a huge deal then I can appreciate why he would lie about his own religious beliefs. It is 100% not the same as being raised as a British muslim and then growing up to be a non-religious adult. It is also likely that they are being quite open minded from their side - in many cultures living together when engaged but before being married is a huge deal too - so I can see that hes trying to push the boundaries a bit.

But, I think that you need a lot of really really difficult conversations before you marry him and have kids. Whilst I would respect his need to lie, I wouldn't expect our children to have to lie in the same circumstances, and I wouldn't be lying about myself (although I would be willing to support his lie). And, ethical concerns aside, having children lie isn't practical - when they're little they don't understand the concept well enough to do it and guaranteed that at 7 they'll find it hilarious to say things like "do you want a bacon sandwich dad" in front of the their grandparents if they've been told not to. Which will be worse than discussing it with them!

Are you muslim? And if not do his parents know that? And know that you don't plan to revert before marriage? That feels like a good place to start because that would lead on to later conversations about children. I think another important consideration is that his parents are very likely to want to see more of you both once you have children, so whatever you decide needs to feel ok in that scenario too.

This seems a red flag to me. Asking someone to modestly dress when visiting an Islamic country is one thing, lying about faith (or lack of it) is wrong.

I totally agree. What a way to live! My MIL is a devout Catholic, she was not at all happy when we told her our son would not be christened, or confirmed, or be brought up Catholic. It mattered a lot to her, but it mattered a lot to us too that we wouldn't be hypocrites or lie in church, even though we don't believe in it. I am not a fan of religion in general, and my husband isn't either so why would we have any part of it? My MIL went on about it for years, but we stood firm and I feel strongly that we did the right thing. If my husband had suggested going through with this kind of nonsense just to keep his mum happy, I would have been very unimpressed with him. My son is in his twenties now, and my MIL let it go long ago, we have an excellent relationship now.

Ah, seen he is Muslim. It’s may be more than not wanting to upset his parents. He may end up being cut off completely from his family. I have spoken to a woman who had to flee her ( educated, professional) family as they were going to murder her ( literally) for marrying a non Muslim.

Has he got parents who are prepared to pretend you are all Muslim whilst knowing you are not, as pp described? Or is it more ominous?

Thus is not an easy situation and you need him to be honest about what his family are really like.

Bingo

I agree with this poster. I was also raised as a Muslim, in a Northern UK city where lots of Muslims live. I wasn't religious at all in my 20s but found myself becoming more and more spiritual post 30. I don't wear a hijab, but dress as modestly as I can and I think for me it's a developing journey. I find a lot of solace and peace in religion.

I have a mixed marriage myself. My husband is white British but converted to Islam (he was a muslim before we met) and he prays, fasts etc. We follow the middle path version of Islam and try to be the best Muslims we can be in terms of our actions and deeds etc. Maybe looking at us outwardly, you would not guess we are Muslim, but religion is a personal thing for me and I'm focusing on my own journey back to Islam.

In terms of marriages, I have seen many mixed marriages and the majority work better when people are honest with their family. If their partners are not religious, it's better to be honest and say it. That way the expectation is not there. Expectation is your enemy. They won't be happy, but at least the truth is out there.

The problem you have OP, is as life goes on, many people do become more religious or spiritual, so his religious views now might not be the same in 20 years. Also, children do not lie, so you could be exposed that way. What a horrible thing to live with. Not to mention, children have to be taught islamic prayers, phrases (InshaAllah, mashaAllah) and learn Arabic to read the quran, and be taught to clean themselves (wudhu) in preparation for prayers etc. There are lots of rituals and they all come part and parcel of growing up as Muslims. What will you do, if you take them to see family and they don't have this knowledge.

99% of the Muslim men I know, who married women who were not born muslim, are expectant that the children grow up in the faith.

Honestly, I would think long and hard about this. Try to persuade him to be honest otherwise the burden is yours to bear. And he might change in the future, could you live with that? I do find from the people i know, many newly religious muslim men push their faith onto their wives (if they weren't born into the religion) which is wrong! Recently during the school run, a friend has started wearing a hijab and said she was under increasing pressure from her husband (who was not religious when they married but became so after their daughter was born) and she's told me she feels like she's losing her own identity. Don't let this be you.

Hiding things from your parents is common in the Asian culture. I've done it myself. But there comes a time you really need to separate yourself and step up and say this is me, accept me or disown me.

Ok, are you Muslim as well OP? There are so many pitfalls here and red flags but when a man is lying to his parents about quite important things like this it’ll never end well and I’d wonder if I were you, what else will he lie about?

A few years ago, I was dating (like a few dates) when I was 31/32, a Persian (Iranian) man. He was good looking, friendly and nice, my age, wealthy, and I knew him through work as he was a commercial property developer though I didn’t know him that well. A fellow colleague who worked with us set us up on a date. When my colleague and friend who’s a British born Iraqi woman who’d been married once (not to a Muslim and no DC) found out she immediately warned me off initially just saying “no he’s Persian”. We actually went for coffee and discussed this not long after her statement and she basically told me that even though the guy I was dating seemed very nice and western in his ways, and his family who we also knew through sight did too, she wouldn’t say personally consider him an option for me as a white British woman as too much could go wrong. She is a Muslim by religion/culture and celebrates Eid etc but she was always very westernised eg drank alcohol, wore western clothes etc as did all her Iraqi friends and was always adamant she didn’t want marriage to a Muslim man for various reasons. Her parents luckily allowed this even though she’s an only child. She’s now, years later happily to another British white man and has 2 DC. So basically not long after our chat I ended things as I thought it could be too risky.

That’s very helpful, balanced and with lots of information. I’m not saying mixed culture/religion marriages can’t work at all but I definitely think from both sides but especially if you’re not au fait with eg Muslim culture/religion, if you’re not that culture/religion you should educate yourself on matters like you write.

This OP. Seen it many times too.

Also any son you have will have to be circumcised in order to keep this pretence up. Cutting your baby's penis to fake religion to in-laws is going to have to happen. And if you don't, you run the risk that they take it into their own hands when you take the child to visit them. I'm NOT kidding or scaremongering. And I am in no way anti-Islam. I know of this happening.

I'm sorry but this won't work or it will be very difficult. He will have to face the truth here and be honest. When kids are born the grandparents will probably expect you to pick Islamic names and what if you don't want that?
what will happen when if you have a boy they ask have you circumcised your son and then you will have to lie about that too. What about food halal or eating pork. They will expect you to visit them and they might even come and visit you. There are so many things that could go wrong here. You can't get children to lie about everything here and they will naturally say "Can I have a bacon sandwich please" as that is what they are used to eating! Grandparents will ask about mosque too n get confused to why your kids don't know much about the religion.
I feel like if you go with this plan there is going to be a massive fallout and your fiance will either never see his family again or he will later change. I find that sometimes a man may not be as religious and then later on they want to practise more and then you and your partner will clash about this.

In marriage it deffo helps to have the same values and how you want to bring up your children and what religious views you both have and you need to stick to that. The truth will come out in the end. Major thing is here it is teaching your children that lying is ok. Your fiance needs to stand upto his parents.

I do know families where the husband is Muslim still but the wife and kids aren't practising the religion and although it is frowned upon by the elders it is accepted in the end. all depends on the type of family I guess. Please think about it very carefully.

Also good luck having the children lying about knowing how to pray, when they're with relatives who expect them to join prayers! Muslim prayers are more than sitting quietly and saying "Amen".

This is the start of a very slippery slope OP. You will not be able to force your children to lie as they grow older. Lying to children/forcing them to lie to others to please family members is abhorrent, and your fiance is a walking red flag. He will do anything to please his parents. I would never marry someone like that.

Will you hold fake christenings, bat mitzvah , baptisms?

Other customary ceremonies?

Just realised he wants a fake religious wedding too. Just no OP, there are so many warning signs here. They think you are Muslim too.

i think you are entering into a huge shit storm you do not understand and is going to blow up at some point in the future.