My fiancé has asked me to lie about childrens religion to his parents

[Quickrunner91]

Fiance has asked me to lie about the religion of our future children to his family.

My fiancés family are very religious. We are not particularly religious. When we have children, we’d like to show them all different religions but allow them to make their own choices.

My fiancés family lives abroad, but he’s asked if we go to see them with children we may have in future, that we lie that we’re raising the children a certain religion.

Am I wrong to feel a little annoyed about this? I want things to go smoothly but at the same time I don’t see why I should have to lie about my own children

Don’t forget kids have a habit of dropping you right in it with their contradictions when you might think they are watching tv or otherwise preoccupied! So it’s possible his deceit will catch up on him, but if it’s just for the sake of peace and quiet, my parents use to go in the back of the church at the end of the service when I was born rather than admit that they were too late and be given a list of every RC Church service in the area 😂🤣

If you have a Nikab traditional Muslim wedding; you both have to promise to practice Islam with devotion. Presumably he intends you to lie for that to. A civil marriage doesn't count for Muslims, as with many other religions.

I have lived in several mainly Muslim countries for over a decade. I have seen such chaos caused by religion in mixed couples. If you start with just one lie, it is bound to escalate. If his family think you have converted, they will expect you to pray 5 times a day and dress and act correctly end and so on and so forth. The worst I saw was a MIL stealing her grandson and getting him circumcised.

You’re getting yourself into heaps of trouble, here. Be very very careful. Those of us who are older with a lot more life experience are telling you, it’s a recipe for disaster. You are choosing your life partner. Choose wisely. This is going to impact the rest of your life, and your children’s too.

Rubbish - this comment is about democracy and peace - nothing to do with Islam. You are the hysterical one screaming 'Islamaphoba' !

Interesting Freudian slip there

I think, if you read all 13 pages of this thread, that the only Muslim getting slagged is the OP's fiance. He is a nasty lying bas...... Nobody is blaming Islam for this situation. This guy is frightened of his own mother and willing to compromise his wife-to-be's integrity. Nowhere does the Coran say you should lie through your teeth to lease your Mum??

Haven’t RTFT. I would stay well out of it, OP. If he wants to lie to his family, fine, but you don’t need to say anything at all about religion.

In all honesty, I love my fiancé. He’s a good guy and I don’t think he’d ever put me in a terrible situation. He has such immense pressure from his parents. The good thing is, they live abroad and he isn’t really too keen on ever visiting them. At the same time I don’t want to lie, even if by omission. I’m tempted to tell him either come clean or this relationship ends

like I said many muslims in the UK AS WELL AS in muslim countries are just muslim in name. OPs fiancés family can be religious doesn't mean OPs family has to be identical. They mainly care about being muslim in name otherwise it's 'shameful' (in certain societies).

You're comparing Luton and Islamabad but you'd be surprised..Im a 3rd gen immigrant in Essex who is muslim and am indeed practising. Most of family abroad living in a majority muslim country are not..

OPs kids will grow up and know they didn't have an islamic upbringing, by age 7 they'll just say my family is muslim/my dad is muslim/im half muslim. It's just a label and as they got older they'll drop the label if they don't like it. Similar to how many Christians will say i was baptised as a roman catholic but i'm not a churchgoer/my family is catholic, etc. From my experience some baptise just do it for tradition and this is basically the same.

Obviously OP shouldn't do this if she isn't comfortable, I'm just showing another point of view which is the reality for many people I know.

You must decide how you want to bring up your family and, certainly, no-one should try to influence you as to which religion your children should follow.

I don't think it would be honest to agree to such a thing - and would pose difficulties in the future.

It is wrong of your husband to request this and I suspect it is a way of encouraging you to comply with something he secretly agrees with. Even if that is not the case at the moment, as people get older they sometimes return to old traditions and religious beliefs. I speak from experience.

Please think very carefully about marrying this person. If he cannot stand up to his parents now it may not bode well for the future. If you hit a rocky patch (as many people do in their marriages), things could get very tricky.

You would not be the first person to say this, OP and then repent in leisure.

I do understand that it is very hard... almost impossible to see that your fiance could be different to what he is presenting to you now.
But there is a reason, majority of previous posters are warning you away. I hope this gives you pause for thought.

I’m sure you do, and he may well be a great guy and maybe this fabricating things for his family is just the way he has learnt to cope with them.

BUT you can’t always predict the kinds of deep rooted feelings and values which will come to the fore when you have children, we are all marked by our upbringings. And that can be hard if you’ve rejected the values you grew up with, but it’s even harder if you can’t actually admit that’s the case.

You also have no control over his family - what if they decide to visit? what happens when you take your (future) children to visit them? What happens at every religious event, celebration, milestone? What kind of message does it send to your children? I take the PPs point about children identifying as part of a specific culture but not necessarily being actively involved in it, but as she also says - that can take generations. Your fiancé isn’t there yet really. How can you invite your children to make a choice about their religion, or bring them up without religion, EXCEPT when they have to lie to family members about it? What happens when they want to have relationships with their cousins/GPs/aunts or uncles? Will that be feasible if they have to keep pretending they live a way they don’t?

What happens when your fiancé’s mum insists that some particular thing should happen or is dealt with a certain way - he can’t be honest about his life, will he be able to say no to her about other things? Or will it be a constant ‘well we can’t upset them so let’s just go along with jt’.

At the very least you and he need to talk 100% openly about every eventuality you can think of and figure out if you’re on the same page about how you respond… not because those responses are set in stone, but to see whether you are going to be able tolerate each others’ attitudes to this long term. This really isn’t a case of ‘well we love each other and we will work it all out eventually’. You need a more tangible plan than that.

Marriage and children is a tough enough gig when you are on the same page and pulling together and you have each others’ backs. How are you going to make it work if it starts out like this, and you’re with a guy who can’t be his own person on some pretty major issues that also impact you?

It doesn’t necessarily mean he’s not a good guy, but it definitely means he isn’t mature enough to handle forging his own path through life…

I think you are quite right.There are a lot of non-practising members of most religions these days. Doing what your Mother expects or asks is pretty usual since the Coran says 'Allah Has placed the respect for the parents just one step below the belief in Allah and true worship of Him.'[Quran 17: 23]

Op you should be more than tempted to tell him he either comes clean or it's over. Don't sleep walk into a complete nightmare.

He's more than happy to lie to his parents. Does that not mean he is also more than happy to lie to you?

I just don't see how he can keep the pretence up or get children to lie. This is a whole level of decite. His parent's thinking you are something you aren't. And sooner or later the web of lies will fall down. Or you'll end up living the life he secretly wants but can't be bothered with when nobody is watching.

Fine for him to munch his way through Ramadan while he's out of sight at work but not for you at home entertaining his parents.

Its not a fluffy innocent pretence to create surprises and enjoyment like Santa and tooth fairy.
This is a whole life lie.

I accept there are lots of non-practicing people of all religions

However most people own it, admit do i don't attend, they don't pretend they go to church/ mosque etc just to keep elders happy.

It's the lying that gets me, and asking children to lie is wrong.

I think for him pretending to be religious is easy as he was brought up religious, so knows what to do/say to be entirely convincing to his parents. I totally understand why he would do this. I think he therefore assumes it will be the same for your kids, but it won't. They won't (??) be circumcised, they won't know the rituals and beliefs that are second nature to him. They will blow the deceit within 5 minutes at his parents' house.

(Similar happened in my family where all of my cousins were brought up Catholic and I wasn't. There was no way I could have convincingly pretended I was Catholic even for a second (and there were times I certainly wanted to to feel less of a black sheep), as I had no clue what all the words meant and what to say when and when to cross myself etc. etc.).

You need to have a serious talk with him and say there is no way this plan is going to work.

Seriously? There's no possibility, even if you have kids, that his parents will visit you or ask you to visit? You don't think they would want to see their grandchildren?

I think you're very naive.

This isn't about him being a good guy or a bad guy.
Its about him being a grown adult who feels he has to lie to his parents, has lied to you about the type of marriage ceremony he wants, and who wants you and your children to lie to his parents.

If you have kids he will have parental responsibility, but unless you have a marriage that is legally recognised in the UK you will have no legal protection.

Initially my view was its so hypothetical why bother - but the reality ( as you just surely must know within your heart) is that this man is prioritising his parents, their happiness and belief system above yours. If you had a strong alternative religion this would become more of an immediate issue- but because you don’t , he is getting away with it. The issue will come to a crunch when you start digging yourself deeper and deeper into a lie. And if you have children and for whatever reason they need to go unaccompanied ( or just with father) to grandparents- what then?! It sounds to me like you have little family support on your own side and this man has found the perfect stooge. 100% certain post marriage his religion and determination “ not to upset parents” will become an overriding priority. If he lies so easily to his own parents you really do not know him, as you can never truly know a liar. Run!

this is not a thread about religion. It’s about male power and his habitual lies and your uncomfortable acquiescence

he lies to you his fiancée
he lies to his parents
there’s a theme here
He lies easily

and he has put you in an uncomfortable position already. he has asked you to lie already eg pretend you were engaged prior to cohabiting. He wants further lies too

Its an an untenable position

imo going forward he needs to be honest
no fake religious faith ceremony
no pretending that you, he or your kids are Muslim

Regardless of what the religion is, promising to lie to his parents about it is an absolute no-no.

What it means in reality is that you are promising his family that you will raise your children in their religion, and when the children are born and his parents start putting pressure on you both then he will start putting pressure on you.

If he wont stand up to them now there is no chance he will stand up to them later.

Wait till you have children you can always wait till there old enough to chose my grandaughters arent baptised mum said ill let them decide when there old enough