My fiancé has asked me to lie about childrens religion to his parents

[Quickrunner91]

Fiance has asked me to lie about the religion of our future children to his family.

My fiancés family are very religious. We are not particularly religious. When we have children, we’d like to show them all different religions but allow them to make their own choices.

My fiancés family lives abroad, but he’s asked if we go to see them with children we may have in future, that we lie that we’re raising the children a certain religion.

Am I wrong to feel a little annoyed about this? I want things to go smoothly but at the same time I don’t see why I should have to lie about my own children

The actual issue is not the religion that is the duplicitous, and lying fiance

Quite - and even if it was purely to do with religion the same would apply to any other

The one I'm closest to involved a woman who married and guy from a staunchly catholic family, and that didn't end well either when she discovered the various "assurances" which had been made behind her back ... though she too would have done better to thrash this out before having children, or indeed marrying him at all

TempleOfBloom · Today 11:58

MamaAlwaysknowsbest · Today 08:54

Do not get married with this man. You are entering a lion's den. And never visit his country or parents with English born children. Stay here and live the democratic life until we still have some democracy and peace left. Be cleverer than that.
Some hysterical Islamophobia in that post.

...........

oh, is it? And tell me exactly where in my post, citing the correct words?

Lot of white people white peopling in this thread.

If you don't have experience of both cultures, your opinion is invalid and you shouldn't be commenting.

It's an unfair burden to place on any kids let alone on you. When old enough are they expected to lie about their beliefs to the family? How much of an influence will his family have on your day to day life and that of the kids? Will they expect the kids to get religious instruction? Will they start lecturing about how the kids should live? If you have a boy will he expect him to be circumcised unnecessarily? You need to gave serious discussions about this and be prepared to reconsider if necessary.

I do understand the family pressures and expectations though and see it's not necessarily an easy position for him with this kind of family situation.

@Zone2NorthLondon

There is a lot to be said for your comments.

I was a liar as a teenager and it is insidious. First you lie to get out of a problem, then you lie to avoid a problem, then you have to lie to back up the first lie, etc. etc.

Fortunately I ended up with a bf who was incapable of lying so I grew out of that phase.

What would you say if this woman was asking this Muslim man to have a CofE wedding, to please her parents. Both non religious.

I virtually know 100s of people who have had Church weddings in the UK, and not being religious. Sometimes to please the parents on one side.

Glad you’ve had a happy resolution and met a good partner
lies have cumulative effect and they are hard to control
people tell lies for multiple reasons and arent necessarily bad (usually misguided or low self esteem) however the cumulative effect of lies and the practicalities of keeping track are usually what causes it all to unravel

You would be an idiot to marry and have children with this man.

Of course you’re entitled to your pov,but no you don’t get to universally determine which opinions are of merit and which are not. This isn’t a white people vs other people thread . Your terms and tone is unnecessarily unpleasant and combative

The theme is here is lying and control. He lies about significant things eg religion, faith ceremony, his observance, and he wants his fiancée to collude ongoing, He lies to his significant people eg parents. He wants his fiancée to collude and maintain this

I'd say the crucial point is, "if you don't have experience of both cultures, don't marry member of the other one without very very thorough research".

However, I don't need to know details about other cultures to know what definitely wouldn't work for my relationship (pretending to raise children in faith I don't share, circumcision without medical indication).

And that is what this thread is about - the OP isn't happy about her fiancée's wish to lie to his parents, people in the thread suggest different things we consider worrying, and the OP will use her knowledge of both cultures to decide what is relevant for her

If she finds there are crucial topics they hasn't discussed yet, it's much better to raise them now than five years into being a family.

A different take on it. I'm a woman who was raised by a Muslim father and Catholic mother. My siblings and I were raised in a fairly non-devout household, for the most part, but with some quirks. The film East is East is a little similar to how I was raised.

I've had Islamic 'marriage' ceremonies, at the request of the father, with my long-term relationships. I equate it to a blessing. I'm not religious but it gave my father peace of mind and never bothered my partners. Funnily enough, none said no or even bothered researching it. I think this was due to the lack of legal aspect to it. Nothing is signed.

I think when you are coming from different cultural and religious backgrounds, compromise is key. Whether that means lie about your future children's religion, that's up to you. It is good that you are covering these issues now.

What would you say if this woman was asking this Muslim man to have a CofE wedding, to please her parents. Both non religious.

It is one thing to have a certain type of wedding and another thing entirely to lie.

I went in for the hypocrisy of letting my dd do first communion as we were in Dublin and it was a whole class affair. I slightly regret it but it didn't involved any lying.

I was just about to say if they are Muslim and you have boys, they will assume they will be circumcised.

I was happy to go along with my partner's religion as it meant a lot to him and he was very devout but I wouldn't be prepared to lie or fake being that religion to please his parents, plus it won't work, plus he might well discover he does want you to live a conventional life different than you agree now once he realises what will rain down on his head if he does not, and that will make it very difficult for you.

I wouldn't enter this marriage or have children, and I come from a two culture, two religion marriage.

Until you have children it isn't actually an issue and you can kick the can down the road and say you will discuss it then and not before!!
But as others have said why does this man feel he has to lie to his parents. Be honest about everything and you won't be tripped up by any lies later. You have to have a good memory to be a liar so don't even go there.
But I have to say if he feels the need to lie about anything - would he really be a good choice to be married to?? He is already flouting his religion by living with you plus I imagine a host of other things such as not regular praying etc - he should just be honest and say that he's a lapsed Muslim or that religion isn't a huge part of his life right now.
Plenty of people lose faith for one reason or another (whatever their religion) but when they feel they do need it, they can return to it.
But I don't trust people who I know lie - does not matter who or what they are!!

Not true. Some families cut off their adult children for choosing a different path. It can be hard to be honest when you know that will probably be the result.

No, I wouldn't lie about that. So when you have children, they're going to continue lying are they? Kids cannot lie, so be warned.

Im a Muslim and I would say this is a major red flag.

On a separate note, I have seen a lot of Muslim men marrying non Muslim wives, very chilled about it, and then they have this massive panic when the kids are teens, and suddenly they want to force Islam down their kids throats....it doesnt work like that!

Kids will make this really complicated and a massive stress for you...when does the lie end. What if MIL comes to visit, its all a charade....

What is a “mock religious wedding”. The only thing I can think of is that you won’t be getting the marriage recognized by the government and surely that can’t be what you mean because that isn’t a real marriage.

If you agree to this, then you are agreeing to teach your children to lie to them also.

That is so ridiculous it's hard to believe anyone is that stupid.

These future children would have to pretend to be of that religion. How the fuck is that supposed to work or is he hoping his parents will be dead before your kids learn to talk?

You'd be daft to marry him.

I imagine it's a 'spiritual' marriage at the local mosque or at home with a local imam presiding. No register signing.
It would be recognised in Muslim countries.

And never visit his country or parents with English born children.
You don’t know what ‘his country’ is or where his parents live. It might well be a democratic country. Also you imply that the children would be at risk, presumably of kidnap by the family. Assumption of such a risk, milllions of Muslims live in a wide range of countries and would never think of separating a mother from her kids.

Stay here and live the democratic life until we still have some democracy and peace left.
Again you have no idea of the political status of the parents’ country. You are implying that the OP’s DP and his family are a risk to both democracy and peace. Again… the vast majority of Muslims are neither. It is my opinion that urging the OP to steer clear in the basis that they are is hysterical Islamophobia. Ditto that our overall democracy and peace is at risk due to Muslims.

Oh do fuck off.

Do you know the national or ethnic backgrounds of those in the OP? Are you the same? Did you check if it was OK for you to post? What qualifies you to post? Which religion are you?

But to play your game I am mixed race. One side of my family is Muslim from a Muslim majority South Asian country, one side of my family (non religious) from a secular but majority Catholic European country I have experience of both including in each country too as well as here. Am I allowed to have an opinion?