To want to catch him in a clever way? Pls help

[badgergirl5]

I think I have just discovered evidence that my husband is having an affair. Please bear with me as I explain the background - I want to be smart about how I confront him and how I make my next move, because I know he will deny it. So I’ve come here to ask for advice and ideas on how to do this. A big part of me just wants to blurt everything out but I know this might be my only chance to know the truth.

This starts all the way back in 2005!! Our kids were babies at the time. I’d had a suspicious feeling that something wasn’t right for a few months so I looked at his phone and found outrageously flirty texts with a woman at work. They were trying to arrange meeting up for a drink and he had actually checked one of the dates with me and told me he’d be going out with a mate. The texts including descriptions of what she was wearing, how she had fancied him and blushed whenever he spoke to her etc etc. I confronted him and he apologised and acted sorry - said he was having a moment of madness, would cancel the evening out with her and break off all contact. But he didn’t let me see the messages he sent to her in order to do this (yes I know this was crazy of me not to insist!!!!).

Three years later I received anonymous text messages telling me he was cheating. I never understood where they came from. He said he had no idea and someone was just trying to cause trouble.

So that brings me to 2024. We have been happily married, at least on the surface, for the last 6 years since those text messages. I have always had an uneasy feeling that he’s a flirt and needs attention from other women but have never known whether he would actually cheat.
Today I was using our shared laptop and he had left his emails open. I don’t even know why given it was YEARS ago, but I searched for that girl’s name. I found 3 separate occasions of him sending presents to her - all the same name and address. Chocolates, clothes and a book (the book actually hurt the most - it was a book about hormones that I have actually read myself. From the date, it looks as though he heard my recommendation and decided to send her one). I find a book about hormones to be a particularly intimate thing to send to someone.

first of all, AIBU to suspect a full blown and potentially long term affair ? If he’s been seeing her, it can’t ever involve overnight stays. He is never away. But I guess he could meet her during the day. Is there any other explanation for still being in contact with her after so many years and sending presents?

I would love advice on how I can play this to be sure before I confront him. How much should I admit I’ve seen?

My husband, after 9 years of marriage, called and said he wanted a divorce.
I didn’t argue - I filed and had his divorce papers served to him where he was living (another US state) because that’s where he was based as a pilot.
That infuriated him - I don’t know why, I think he just expected me to continue life as normal until he was ready to move on. Only I wasn’t cooperating.
As a result, he kept me in court for, I don’t know, well over a year and finally, after our court case was over, I owed $85,000 (in 1993 dollars) to my attorney.
On our last day in court, ex wasn’t there. His attorney confessed to me that he had “been involved” with a stewardess and that they had a 2 yr old child.
I guarantee you that whether you “know the truth” or not, it’s going to hurt exactly the same.
Please don’t drive yourself crazy over what sounds like an irretrievably broken trust and plan accordingly for your future.

@NotAgainBrian it was a book, running gear and a box of chocolates. None of it screams foreplay. I could send these gifts to my grandmother.

I’m confused as to why you’re wasting your time with this man. He’s messed up before,you can’t trust him even if you wanted to and he’s sending things to another woman. Just divorce him unless you want to spend the rest of your life with questions he’s unlikely to answer

Agree with @KnowledgeableMomma imagine the shock (for him) and pure delight (for you) - not suspecting a thing & everything is already all in place. He comes home to a large envelope on a table, with a few roses on there for dramatic effect of course, make it look like a romantic gesture (like he has been doing with ow) to - bam!

Those sound like the most ordinary type of friendship gifts to me, leaving aside the context of flirtatious text messages over 20 years ago.

I’ve certainly had books, outdoor gear and chocolates from male friends I’ve never contemplated shagging.

OP, get as much financial information on him as you can now. Payslip, take screenshots, make copies, forward things to yourself.

You have told him you know. He will start to hide assets from you e.g. siphon funds to another account in anticipation of a divorce. Get ahead of him before waiting for his answer.

I would love advice on how I can play this to be sure before I confront him. How much should I admit I’ve seen?

depends how often they are in contact but you could buy a pay as you go phone (or get one of your friends whose number he won't have) to text him. what you text him may reveal different results.

we did this with a friend's DH. we thought he was having an affair with Kat (not real name). he'd mentioned to a guy another woman susie. Text was sent to him just saying hi how are you. reply came back saying sorry dont have your number who is this. we didn't answer and then he said 'Susie is that you? missed you.'

so you could just try a fishing hello. or go more full hog with a 'hi, phone died, had to get a temp new number. unexpectedly available tonight and here. any chance?'

and see what happens. or do it in stages.

@Catza I think what makes it obvious that these aren't innocent gifts is the fact that she found evidence of them flirting previously and that the gifts were sent in secret. It doesn't really matter what they were. They 100% aren't innocent.

I don’t agree that they are innocent gifts. She stopped working at the same company 9 years ago and, even when she did work there, she was the young girl with a crush on him who blushed whenever he spoke to her (those were HER words in the texts that I found). He barely knew her at work - she texted him as she was leaving her job to “ask for work advice” and admit to him that she fancied him. He lapped it up. Why on earth would he ever need to innocently send presents to a girl like that, who now lives and works on the other side of the country?

It’s either a full blown affair (and they meet sporadically whenever she comes to London) or it’s mostly based on text/ email (I haven’t ruled it out that he only texts from his work phone, which I haven’t checked). If it’s the latter, I could forgive him if he admitted everything and actually sought counselling this time to work out why he keeps needing ego boosts from other women. I couldn’t rip our family apart for that. And that’s why I need to know the truth.

I’m going to take the advice to refuse to tell him what I know and see if he admits more than he needs to. I think it’s unlikely that he’ll know I’ve seen gift receipts. But it wouldn’t surprise me if he shouts and screams that I’m emotionally abusing him by refusing to say what I’m talking about.

I know you say you've searched for her name on his email, but have you searched for other things on there? Variations of her name. Her email. Emails from mobile phone companies for a phone you don't know he has? Welcome emails for signing up to a chat service? I'd also be looking closely at all emails in and out in the months surrounding the time he bought the gifts.

I'm sorry that this is happening to you. I'd absolutely want to know the truth too.

Just wondering what you hope to accomplish by getting the “evidence “? Do you want to leave? Divorce? Or just know the truth? Do you want to stay “happily” married? You may not get the evidence you hope for so perhaps decide if your marriage is done or if you would leave if you can have the evidence? I’m not sure three presents in over two years is enough but definitely worth asking him or her or anything else that might know them? It could be they have a friendship however given the history and his intentions to cheat it could be they have been on and off for years! Can you get her number and speak with her pretending you know and see what she says? But be prepared to not find the truth and if you can’t handle the not knowing and not trusting then perhaps it’s time to go separate ways, only you know

Thank you @gingergingerginger - I did spend quite a lot of time searching for every variation of her name. I only found those three gift receipt emails. No emails from her directly (I searched for first and last name). I also looked on Linked In - he wasn’t even friends with her on there. But he is friends with her on Strava (the running app) and she likes pretty much every post he ever puts on there.

@CanaryMary If I ever had evidence he had physically cheated on me, yes I would leave.

You have her address but don't let on about that. I like the pp suggestion of sending her a book about infidelity. Do it anonymously. Make them sweat.

It doesn't matter what the gifts were. He's sent gifts to a woman he's already had an emotional affair with.

You shouldn't be getting such a hard time here, of course you need to know the truth and it helps to have as much as possible.

You know you'll be in for a sh*tload of gaslighting so you need to be armed for it.

Whatever you do, don't contact her. I don't think she'll tell you anything, she'll just alert him.

First step is make sure you have secure copies of all legal & financial document all bank account details & references, etc so that he can't screw you over. Don't neglect this step while you try to find out the truth- get your ducks in a row straight away.

As for confronting him?
Say little. You know about her <name>
If he says he's not been having an affair, then "oh, what would you call if then?"
"You're really trying to tell me you've never slept with her? /kissed /sexual contact"

"Cheating" is easier to deny than specific acts, which he can separate out in his mind. Once you've got those, you can sum up & point out that it does, in fact, make him a cheat. And a coward.

Keep calm so that he doesn't go into defense / deflect mode & trigger your emotions, so that when he speaks you can pick out the facts, and let him trip himself up in his own lies.

You know how he argues, if you keep a clear head you can use that to unpick what he says. He's more likely to end up answering direct questions if you don't lose your shit.

You can lose it when you know what you need to.

I did exactly this when all I had was a potentially innocent photo and a gut feeling to go on. Let him spin it, took apart his lies. Told him exactly what I thought of him, kept my dignity.

Have you spoken to him Op? X

No he’s unlikely to be back until very late. He is out with a few mutual friends so I know it’s true! It’s out of character for him to ignore me like this so he’s definitely spooked by what I said.

He also seems to have adjusted whatsapp so I can’t see when he was “last seen.” Which is very strange behaviour.

It depends what you want to get out of it. Affairs are pretty commonplace and have been since forever.

Do you want him to stop?

Do you want a divorce?

if you just want to know about it, just tell him to come clean and he’ll make it out unscathed!!

I would have sent a book on cheating to her from your husband's account via Amazon and watch them both panic.

This is a really stressful time for you, sending hugs.
Have you got children together?

Yes we have two children

what if your wrong @badgergirl5 ?

I think you have all the proof you need with these emails, the Strava and gifts. Just makes sure you save the information in some way.

When he comes back, covertly record his behaviour (such as voice memos if you have iphone, or whatever the equivalent is on android) so you can listen to it back and hear how unreasonable he is. Also any gaslighting he attempts will sound less effective on recording than in the moment.