To want to catch him in a clever way? Pls help

[badgergirl5]

I think I have just discovered evidence that my husband is having an affair. Please bear with me as I explain the background - I want to be smart about how I confront him and how I make my next move, because I know he will deny it. So I’ve come here to ask for advice and ideas on how to do this. A big part of me just wants to blurt everything out but I know this might be my only chance to know the truth.

This starts all the way back in 2005!! Our kids were babies at the time. I’d had a suspicious feeling that something wasn’t right for a few months so I looked at his phone and found outrageously flirty texts with a woman at work. They were trying to arrange meeting up for a drink and he had actually checked one of the dates with me and told me he’d be going out with a mate. The texts including descriptions of what she was wearing, how she had fancied him and blushed whenever he spoke to her etc etc. I confronted him and he apologised and acted sorry - said he was having a moment of madness, would cancel the evening out with her and break off all contact. But he didn’t let me see the messages he sent to her in order to do this (yes I know this was crazy of me not to insist!!!!).

Three years later I received anonymous text messages telling me he was cheating. I never understood where they came from. He said he had no idea and someone was just trying to cause trouble.

So that brings me to 2024. We have been happily married, at least on the surface, for the last 6 years since those text messages. I have always had an uneasy feeling that he’s a flirt and needs attention from other women but have never known whether he would actually cheat.
Today I was using our shared laptop and he had left his emails open. I don’t even know why given it was YEARS ago, but I searched for that girl’s name. I found 3 separate occasions of him sending presents to her - all the same name and address. Chocolates, clothes and a book (the book actually hurt the most - it was a book about hormones that I have actually read myself. From the date, it looks as though he heard my recommendation and decided to send her one). I find a book about hormones to be a particularly intimate thing to send to someone.

first of all, AIBU to suspect a full blown and potentially long term affair ? If he’s been seeing her, it can’t ever involve overnight stays. He is never away. But I guess he could meet her during the day. Is there any other explanation for still being in contact with her after so many years and sending presents?

I would love advice on how I can play this to be sure before I confront him. How much should I admit I’ve seen?

Exactly, @Sceptical123. He deleted their exchanges and refused to attempt to restore them. His agenda has been obstruction. It’s rich that he is now feigning being upset that they can’t be retrieved.

I am struck by this man’s long-term entitlement to lie and scheme. This would be a dealbreaker for me. When caught he always begs for another chance, but it’s all manipulative lip-service. It’s been a pattern with him. @badgergirl5 stated that the first time he was caught scheming with this OW, he ‘bombarded me with apologies and assurances,’ which obviously had zero value, as he continued to fail to protect his fidelity. This go-round, his attempts to bamboozle his Wife with ludicrous falsehoods [team gifts, etc.], claims of stupidity, and desperate apologies are pathetic and nothing new.

He is capable of so much deception to chase illicit thrills.

Maybe this had already been said/suggested but surely she has a copy of the messages on her WhatsApp account? Could he/you/the private investigator/a third party ask her for screenshots of everything so at least you know how truthful he's being?

I think once it reaches a level where you’re asking the OW for proof she’s not in fact an OW and he’s already lied multiple times this time round (team gifts? In and out of hospital? Which one is it?), it would be the point of no return for me. And then OP sends him those 2 options - either prove you’re not cheating or divorce - and his response is “let me think about it”!!!

also, why is OP the one trying to retrieve these messages, and not him?

at this point, I think the choice is more between divorce or resign yourself to being married to a cheater. He’ll get bolder with Every chance he gets.

I would’ve been done when he said “let me think about it”

How are you doing op? Any news from the PI? I know many advocate for ending your marriage, but nothing wrong in taking your time. You have had a huge shock. Hope you are getting through the day the best you can.

Right?! The brass neck of him.

I'd not need to be waiting around to see what he decides when you already know he's a liar and a cheat.

I think, for me at least, it seems that OP is someone who would benefit from knowing the truth. Like myself, I'd always have that niggling feeling at the back of my head wondering exactly what happened and what there was to hide. We know there is more to it but it's impossible to know what. I think that's a power-play on his part, a mind-game to further toy with OP. It sound like her (Ex?) DH is quite enjoying the fact that she'll never know the truth, which is probably why he's putting no effort into restoring them. So, why shouldn't she get to know the sordid details if she wants to? If it gives her peace of mind to know exactly what she's dealing with and the conviction to move on/forward, I can't see how someone reaching out to the OW wouldn't work in OPs favour.

@badgergirl5

Has he responded to your mail

I am very much the same in I need to know, for me not knowing is torture. I’ve always been very upfront when it comes to lying and the truth. When it comes to most things I am willing to be open and work through things, but I have to know the full facts and absolute truth, without it I can not even consider moving forward. Part of my previous career involved digging for facts, not PI but I worked with a lot of ex police investigators, they always joked about my digging for answers. I’m not someone who can just say fine I will never know, to me that’s not closure, not in my personal life anyway.

The slightest hint of lying in a relationship and I’m done.

What most liars don’t realise is the truth eventually comes out in one way or another. Maybe not straight away but eventually, usually after the damage is done.

i always knew my first H was a lying fucking cheat, in my gut I knew there was way more than what ended out marriage. Over 10 years later I got the truth, multiple dalliances I’d long past caring about, but also a secret child. By this point I was happily married and with my DH but I couldn’t help the YES I FUCKING KNEW IT AND I TOLD YOU SO’s. His entire family knew about the secret child but kept it secret, his partner before me who he had a child with and I’d stayed in touch with because my stepchild wanted us to still be close didn’t have a clue and she was very much the DIL they wanted and adored her. Even when I was married to their son his ex was put before me, but they even kept the child secret from her and their grandchild.

I won’t deny quietly enjoying some of the fall out, except my stepchild, we are still close and cared they were ok, which they were and still are.

OP, never ever stop trusting your gut. But also remember you might not get the answers you need now. Draw a line, think about what point you can push this and can with good conscience move forward.

@badgergirl5, I’ve been thinking of you. How are things going?

Hope you’re doing ok @badgergirl5

Thanks very much for the kind messages.
A few things have happened over the last week. He has found a therapist and has already been for the first session - at first he’s going to go by himself but I might join if there’s things that the therapist advises we should approach together. But it’s my choice that he should focus on himself.

I’ve also found a lot of comfort in “evidence” that this wasn’t an actual affair. I asked him - while I was standing right beside him, without any prior notice - to contact one of his teammates on whastapp and casually mention the most recent gift to her, along with a reference to her being sick. I figured that the colleague would be surprised/ confused if they didn’t already know about it. The reply showed me that it’s actually a lot more above board than I feared it was. He replied making reference to her being in hospital; it seems the most recent gift (at least) was in connection to that.
I also asked him (on the same day, again while I was sitting next to him) to send HER a message. He had deleted all his prior WhatsApp messages but I dictated it to him so that it would sound casual, friendly and not “alert” her to anything weird. It was simply “hey X, how has your day been? Feeling any better?” (By now I realised she was recently out of hospital). He didn’t want to send it but eventually agreed. The reply was very friendly but not even flirty. She used lots of emojis, talked about hospital and talked about some of their mutual work colleagues and something stressful that has been happening recentlY at work. He thought it would upset me that she’s so “friendly” but he had no idea how much relief I felt that this clearly wasn’t a message from a woman he’s having an affair with.

In short, I now believe he wasn’t having an affair. His mistake was hiding it from me that she had been hired as a client, and sending her gifts when he could have kept it strictly professional given what had happened in the past. I still feel sick that he did that and that’s why he agrees that he needs to speak to a therapist and try everything he can to earn my trust back. I’ve told him very plainly that I don’t trust him.

so that’s the update. I want to save our marriage as it doesn’t feel like I can throw everything away when, to be honest, I jumped to a conclusion that was wrong. But he understands that it was natural for me to jump to that conclusion and that it was his fault that he put me through that with his dishonesty.

Thanks for coming back to update us OP. I hope the road ahead is smooth and you manage to rebuild the trust.

Well OP I hope it works out for you. But I do feel there's no smoke without fire and it does seem suspicious. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Hopefully this has been a wake up call for him

That sounds like a really positive outcome OP, thanks for the update. Good luck x

Good luck to you both going forward. I hope you can work through your issues. Thank you for the update 💐

Brilliant update! However, you can’t be in a happy loving relationship if you don’t trust the person. I truly believe you also need couples therapy to see if you can regain the trust and get the love back you once had. Strive for the best in life, not mediocre. You deserve full love and trust x

This doesn’t sound a brilliant outcome. It sounds really toxic. Making him send messages he doesn’t want, dictating them….either he is dodgy or you’re controlling here. It won’t work out

I probably haven’t properly been in love with him since the trust was damaged years ago

This says it all. You’re not doing your children any favours by demonstrating a loveless marriage….

Glad everything worked out in then end, you must be so relieved…… all that stress!

So instead of getting the solid proof that he cheated that you wanted, you're now happy to settle for no proof that he didn't? That was a waste of a PI.

Good luck op, thanks for the update ❤️

I think it would be prudent for you to see a therapist too. Not his though obviously. Not with him either initially.

thanks for the update OP. I’m so pleased you’ve made a decision and you’re going to work on things. Ignore people who are disappointed you haven’t filed for divorce, this is your decision to do what you think is right for your family, not anyone else’s. Don’t second guess yourself now. Good luck xxx