To want to catch him in a clever way? Pls help

[badgergirl5]

I think I have just discovered evidence that my husband is having an affair. Please bear with me as I explain the background - I want to be smart about how I confront him and how I make my next move, because I know he will deny it. So I’ve come here to ask for advice and ideas on how to do this. A big part of me just wants to blurt everything out but I know this might be my only chance to know the truth.

This starts all the way back in 2005!! Our kids were babies at the time. I’d had a suspicious feeling that something wasn’t right for a few months so I looked at his phone and found outrageously flirty texts with a woman at work. They were trying to arrange meeting up for a drink and he had actually checked one of the dates with me and told me he’d be going out with a mate. The texts including descriptions of what she was wearing, how she had fancied him and blushed whenever he spoke to her etc etc. I confronted him and he apologised and acted sorry - said he was having a moment of madness, would cancel the evening out with her and break off all contact. But he didn’t let me see the messages he sent to her in order to do this (yes I know this was crazy of me not to insist!!!!).

Three years later I received anonymous text messages telling me he was cheating. I never understood where they came from. He said he had no idea and someone was just trying to cause trouble.

So that brings me to 2024. We have been happily married, at least on the surface, for the last 6 years since those text messages. I have always had an uneasy feeling that he’s a flirt and needs attention from other women but have never known whether he would actually cheat.
Today I was using our shared laptop and he had left his emails open. I don’t even know why given it was YEARS ago, but I searched for that girl’s name. I found 3 separate occasions of him sending presents to her - all the same name and address. Chocolates, clothes and a book (the book actually hurt the most - it was a book about hormones that I have actually read myself. From the date, it looks as though he heard my recommendation and decided to send her one). I find a book about hormones to be a particularly intimate thing to send to someone.

first of all, AIBU to suspect a full blown and potentially long term affair ? If he’s been seeing her, it can’t ever involve overnight stays. He is never away. But I guess he could meet her during the day. Is there any other explanation for still being in contact with her after so many years and sending presents?

I would love advice on how I can play this to be sure before I confront him. How much should I admit I’ve seen?

How about option 4 which is a combination of option 3 plus the divorce option. I.e. if you decide for divorce go with option 3 but rather then living like that for years live like that for months or year or two only.

You already alluded that the option 3 could end up being short term anyway.

Basically don’t have as an option living like option 3 long term but do use it as a short term solution.

@OhMyOhMyiy yes that’s a good point

As someone who works with troubled teenagers I would be very concerned about option 3, which is essentially you lying to them for a sustained period of time. They WILL know you are lying - either consciously if someone slips up and they overhear something, or subliminally in their gut. They will sense the inauthenticity of the situation, but as children they will feel forced to/ obliged to go along with it and play the game, resulting in them denying and smothering their own feelings. It's a deeply deeply unhealthy and toxic dynamic in which to grow up and can result in huge psychological issues in adulthood.

Honestly you are afraid of the final split and potentially damaging impact, which is utterly understandable, but handled well and with truth and authenticity, children do move on and thrive after parental divorce.

Option 3 is simply letting him have his cake and eat it.

I think you have created Option 3 because Option 2 scares you, it really doesn’t benefit anyone to lie to your kids and just drift on.

Also I think giving a cheater Option 3 just means he will have more affairs and the marriage will likely end in divorce anyway but when he decides which really doesn’t seem fair. At least with Options 1 and 2 you have a degree of control.

Ok I accept your advice @bitofafix
Perhaps I just need to re-word option 3 as a trial separation then.

Reading the replies to option 3 I feel like I really want to repeat myself. If you go for option 2 rather than 1 really think option 3 + 2 is better.

There are these stages people go through when faced with change. You can google it or possibly are aware already. This will be a huge change for your family

I don’t know how long it takes to divorce and the practicalities. But if you go for option 2 what exactly does it mean practically and ‘logistically’? Say tonight you both decide for option 2. What are the next steps? What happens tomorrow? What do you say to whom and when?

I think option 3 (and as OP you say it will need more thought) just allows the two of you go over the stages people go through when faced with change and therefore as you also said when talking to the children and wider family the message will be much softer and you might be able to facilitate their transition better. Right now both of you still find it really scary so you won’t be able to ease the fears of your children in the same way as if you two already got used to it yourselves.

Just don’t do option 3 as a long term option. Only for the time that it takes for the two of you work through the practicalities of divorce; what ever the practicalities might be (talking to layers, drawing up paperwork, etc, etc…)

I feel like option 3 could just be an extension of the other two options -
options 1 show the messages, get therapy, live in the other house until trust is rebuilt, maintain contact with the children, build towards future together.
Option 2 get a divorce, live in the other house until other options are viable, maintain contact with the children, both build towards separate futures

Honestly you are afraid of the final split and potentially damaging impact, which is utterly understandable, but handled well and with truth and authenticity, children do move on and thrive after parental divorce.

this is the crux of it, how you handle divorce, not a binary stay together or divorce. I wish my parents had divorced when I was a teenager, and not when I was 27, so we had had a chance at not growing up surrounded by resentment, lies, passive aggressiveness, uncomfortable silence and so on.

When I started typing my response I was also thinking option 3 plus either 1 or 2. Then I wondered, if going through therapy, would living apart be helpful so I wrote what I wrote.

Either way, I think option 3 is very thoughtful draft of how to ease the transition that OP is going through one way or the other.

RE option 3 I think you need to be careful about how he’s going to spin that to other people. ‘I did exactly what she said and she’s divorcing me boo hoo hoo’ etc. it gives him a chance to change the narrative. As pp say the truth fudging to the kids might also backfire.

We collectively just want you to retain the strongest position going forward.

Option 3 will be a very messy and very unpredictable set up.
He may resent you have put him in that position, or he may be gleeful to be free to do as he likes and go on a sex spree.
Neither of those two possible scenarios will be pleasant for you or the children.

You have taken control of the situation so far… however, if option 3 remains on the table, he may read that as you being afraid to carry on without him, rather than that you are doing it for the children. It may boost his ego and invite further poor treatment of you.

I would agree that deceiving the children with option 3 will do them no favours.
Your children will eventually become adults and how you behave now will influence them, actions have consequences and they need to see that in action. They may actually not respect you for staying.

It is a very stressful terrifying situation, I know, please do try to operate from a place of strength and practicality, dig as deep as you can, the strength is there just waiting for you to mine it.

Decisions made from a place of fear are never the best.

Keep going, continue the composure and dignity you have maintained so far… even if you do want him to fix it and you wanted to take him back, he is likely to have more respect for you with option 3 off the table.

Option 3 is obviously the most controversial. It works on paper, but could get messy with new relationships and feelings for both of you bringing up a lot of emotions.
I would also explore- how to divorce well, as an option. Where you have therapy, so you can put the children's needs as central, and navigate any bumps in the road. Get support for the children too. It sounds as if you have the finances to get the help with this and could create a new version of what family means. Two parents who co parent well and show kindness and respect.
I don't blame you for wanting to explore option1. I sense you have a need to make sure you have done everything possible to maintain the family unit.
Children aside, I wonder what is best for you OP? You are also important in all of this.
I hope he gives your e mail the consideration it deserves. Only you know if he would put the effort into fixing things.

I certainly don’t want him to think that I’m afraid to carry on without him. I really am NOT afraid of that - I’m afraid of seeing my children break down and cry and be the people-pleasing wrecks that some of their friends became when their parents divorced. I want them to have the best childhoods possible and I’m simply trying to put that first.

I guess I need to articulate my fear about option 1 - what if it’s literally not possible for him to restore the WhatsApp messages? From what I can tell, he would need to have iCloud back-up on his phone for WhatsApp, and I don’t think my own WhatsApp account has that. In the absence of that, it seems there are various apps that promise to restore old chats but I can’t tell if they actually work or if they’re dodgy apps that you pay for and then you still don’t get the chat back. If that happens, I don’t know what to do. I keep telling him he can restore the chat and he keeps saying that you actually can’t. Does anyone know for sure?

If he really wanted to prove things to you, he would find a way. He would ask the OW to send him screenshots covering the entire chat period or export it somehow.
what is the chance that both of them deleted the chat?

Regarding option 3 - you have to be really honest with yourself and ensure you’re not using the seperation as a threat, hoping that he’d use the time away to prove his love and commitment to you. Because in reality he might actually continue / start relationship with someone else and you’d have no way of monitoring what and when he does, no access to his devices etc.
i know a couple who went through a similar trail separation, the man moved out to his parents and after a few weeks started a relationship with a work colleague. All hell broke loose and the wife accused him of cheating and not working on their marriage, even got her friends to follow him around, she was absolutely devastated and furious. In her view the separation was meant as a break to allow him to understand what he’s about to lose. It didn’t - they divorced.
if you tell him that he has a right to see other people you have to really mean it.

ANYTHING can be restored from a phone and nothing is ever permanently deleted. I used one myself when the first iPhone came out, and it worked perfectly. There will be other apps that do this now. How he does it is not your business to worry about, it’s his responsibilitity. If he doesn’t get it done, that speaks volumes.

He continues to lie to you, this is highly disrespectful and insulting to your intelligence. I can’t imagine how frustrated you must feel. The gaslighting is really very cruel and this is all akin to mental torture.

I’m not sure how good it will be for your stress levels and mental health to remain in this situation. When you are feeling like that, it will add to the atmosphere in the house, and that will not be conducive to a healthy relaxed peaceful home environment for the kids.

You are doing amazing OP and you are doing the right thing exploring your options. You need to box clever with men like this one.
I would like to add as far as the children go, that's where you need the big sit down chat. While he is feeling the shame and embarrassment he may be more open to actually listening to you. Explain about the potential damage to the kids and the effect that may have on their future, tell him about their friends and how they have reacted. Especially the ones who's fathers have behaved despicably. Tell him your biggest fear is him manipulating them and ruining their chance of happy, healthy relationships. Bring that out in the open so that when he does behave terribly you can calmly remind him of the conversation and that he promised not to do that to them.
People who manipulate will always manipulate but they hate it being exposed. Keep messages and do not think twice about showing them to people who question you.
Stay calm and collected, keep your children as your main focus and you will come out of this ok. It will be scary, he will most likely be a dick but just keep on going.

I believe this too, that it has to be really clear what the expectations of a break/separation are to both of you.

It seems in a lot cases the woman asks for/demands one assuming that her OH will use the time and space to reflect - and they regard it as a literal timeout where they are officially single for that period. It’s a dangerous set up when the guy is already a cheater or suspected one as it gives them even more opportunity to indulge in negative behaviour.

Men tend not to deliberate over details with as much emotion as women do in these situations and these types rarely think ahead of his their actions in this time will impact on their relationship. They want a quick fix or even a distraction. You don’t want to be even more worried over whatever he’s potentially getting up to while you’re living apart if you hope there could be a reconciliation.

You were looking to pay someone as a PI, surely there must be a service somewhere to help with tech issues such as restoring messages? Maybe someone on here will know more but I would explore that as an option.

He could also get her to screenshot their chat and send it all over. He could find a way too, its not all on you to do the work, he should be putting in the work to sorting this.

You’ve been through this before OP and it didn’t work, 5 years later here you are again. I’ll predict what’s going to happen: he’s going to gaslight you into some sort of situationship because he too wants to stay in the marriage (cake, eat too etc…) then five years down the line after he’ll find himself the next hottie and it will be rinse and repeat all over again.

With the greatest of respect OP, option 3 is just completely unsustainable, not to mention unfair on your children -

"I have also suggested - given that we have two properties - that we continue to be married “on paper” for the next 5-8 years while the children are still at home, but that we try to work out how to move forward with our lives at the same time. It would involve a lot of time for him in our other property - I guess we could tell the kids that he is working away a lot."

Well you would have to tell the kids he's working away permanently as I assume you wouldn't be spending the night together anymore? In which case your kids will know it's a lie and that their parents are lying to them. For years. And they might fall for it now (or pretend to believe it) but not when they are teenagers. And what happens if he moves his OW into your "other home"? Or if you meet someone else in this time??

Option 1 is also a waste of time. You don't need to see more proof. You know he's been unfaithful. In whichever disguise it's in, he has lied to you and been emotionally involved with someone else. Twice.

End the relationship and start the process of moving on without him. Dragging it out for years will only make it more painful and waste years of your life because you'll still ultimately be tied to him.

I think option 3 could help the DC in the very short term. A few month of seeing dad at weekends & seeing you creating a new normal for yourself, might be easier for them to accept “it will be just like it has been these last few months”. I think any longer & you risk it blowing up before you are ready & risk it approaching/in middle of important exams.
I think you’d find it very stressful & be more difficult to move forward.

My husband grew up in a household with very unhappy parents & has always said he wished they’d divorced at least 10 year before they did. They tried to hide it from the DC but they all knew.

As the child of divorced parents I cannot tell you strongly enough how wrong option 3 is.

You will be creating an artificial family life which they will know is fake. That will very likely break down any trust that is left which could impact your long term relationship

I appreciate that you know your kids but they are more likely to thrive in an honest family than a fake one, even if that means that their parents are divorced

I know people have already said this but I have to say that i can't stress enough how bad of an option 3 is. The kids will most definitely know something is up and you'll lose their trust and respect for you, both of you, as parents. That is a far greater risk than upsetting them in the short term but them growing up to know you'd never lie to them and that you did what you needed to do at the time. Don't underestimate what your children pick up on, they won't be fooled, especially at their ages (think you said 9 and 12?).

The only good option here is 2. Make a clean break, retain the respect of your children and let everyone move on.

Regarding option 1 remember that individual messages can be deleted on WhatsApp without any sign that's been done. So he could potentially just get OW to do that with the really bad stuff he doesn't want you to see and then send the chat over. So even the messages can't be relied on.

@badgergirl5 this article from The Guardian might be useful. https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/sep/26/breaking-up-but-living-together-how-lockdowns-lead-to-nesting