To want to catch him in a clever way? Pls help

[badgergirl5]

I think I have just discovered evidence that my husband is having an affair. Please bear with me as I explain the background - I want to be smart about how I confront him and how I make my next move, because I know he will deny it. So I’ve come here to ask for advice and ideas on how to do this. A big part of me just wants to blurt everything out but I know this might be my only chance to know the truth.

This starts all the way back in 2005!! Our kids were babies at the time. I’d had a suspicious feeling that something wasn’t right for a few months so I looked at his phone and found outrageously flirty texts with a woman at work. They were trying to arrange meeting up for a drink and he had actually checked one of the dates with me and told me he’d be going out with a mate. The texts including descriptions of what she was wearing, how she had fancied him and blushed whenever he spoke to her etc etc. I confronted him and he apologised and acted sorry - said he was having a moment of madness, would cancel the evening out with her and break off all contact. But he didn’t let me see the messages he sent to her in order to do this (yes I know this was crazy of me not to insist!!!!).

Three years later I received anonymous text messages telling me he was cheating. I never understood where they came from. He said he had no idea and someone was just trying to cause trouble.

So that brings me to 2024. We have been happily married, at least on the surface, for the last 6 years since those text messages. I have always had an uneasy feeling that he’s a flirt and needs attention from other women but have never known whether he would actually cheat.
Today I was using our shared laptop and he had left his emails open. I don’t even know why given it was YEARS ago, but I searched for that girl’s name. I found 3 separate occasions of him sending presents to her - all the same name and address. Chocolates, clothes and a book (the book actually hurt the most - it was a book about hormones that I have actually read myself. From the date, it looks as though he heard my recommendation and decided to send her one). I find a book about hormones to be a particularly intimate thing to send to someone.

first of all, AIBU to suspect a full blown and potentially long term affair ? If he’s been seeing her, it can’t ever involve overnight stays. He is never away. But I guess he could meet her during the day. Is there any other explanation for still being in contact with her after so many years and sending presents?

I would love advice on how I can play this to be sure before I confront him. How much should I admit I’ve seen?

Ah ...ok. I thought option C. Was whether or not he restored them. My mistake. 😀 Hope you find the solution that is in yours and the kids best interests.x

Do be careful about option C though x

@shiningstar2 sorry, it’s hard to keep up as my updates have been all the over the place, but I removed option 3 from the email that I actually sent last night

I think that was a very wise decision.

Yes, do be very careful of conceding on all levels and becoming a doormat
He’s already shown a lack of respect, multiple times. Do not compound this by giving away your own power so readily.

He has shamelessly fed you ridiculous lies several times to your face now.

What do you think will suddenly change him into becoming more honest and truthful? It’s an important question it might be useful to ask yourself.

If he will only tell the truth when forced into it with irrefutable evidence, you are heading for a life of frustration and misery. It is impossible to rely on and trust a proven liar. And this is the second time he has done it.

Have you stopped to imagine what a third rodeo might make you feel like?

What is it that scares you so much about moving on… sometimes the huge terrifying monsters we imagine are under the bed are just in our imagination. Sometimes it’s actually a lovely place and much better than it used to be before.

I have been where you are with a liar and wasted years, some of my best years. You still have options, even if you can’t sss them or don’t believe in them right now. You may need to space to build yourself back up, and that is nigh on impossible to do whilst you are in a state of suspicion or being gaslit everyday.

The earlier you leave, the better chance you’ll have of finding happiness again, before you’ve allowed this man to divest all self esteem and mental peace and clarity from you.

His constant gaslighting has you chasing your tale frantically and offering to sort the phone for him! What else will you sort for him? He gets to betray you, have things overlooked, and keep all the wonderful things with you, but now with the added bonus of a bachelor pad and ready unlimited sex.

Do not underestimate the level of options a man with a decent job and prospects who is not hideous can garner, there is a shortage of them, and none of these women are tired of his bullshit yet!

Don’t let him get you over a barrel - not regarding the children, not with a fear of being single, and certainly not with your self esteem… keep that composure, power and dignity. That will give you the better outcomes.

Operate from a place of hope, never fear. You can do it.

I am not afraid of being single at all. I can say that without any hesitation. It’s the children I am scared of hurting and that has always been the case. If I were by myself with him, I’d have left last time.

You are clearly an incredible mother OP. I have no doubt your children will be fine whatever happens because they have you.

Whatever brings you the most peace and time to care for them and love them will be what is best for the children.

Sadly OP, either way the children are going to be hurt. This isn't something you can avoid. You can do your best to minimise the hurt and they can still grow to be happy, healthy and productive individuals. The best way in this scenario to minimise the impact on them is to stay strong and remove him as a partner. He can if he wishes, still be a good Dad, but you don't have to stay with him in order for you/him to achieve that. If you stay, even if there are no incriminating messages, you are forever going to be suspicious and unhappy, your children will pick up on this however much you try to hide it and this will hurt them more and cause them more damage in the long run.

Please stop worrying, parents separating is so, so common. It's distressing for a while but it's really not the end of the world and your kids will be fine.

Dads do very frequently try to play the victim, blame the mother, and rally the kids into being their vocal supporters. Also, they make their kids their emotional confidants. It happened to me as a child.

But, once we became adults we could see that what he did was wrong.

Unfortunately the people who told me that you can always restore WhatsApp chats are incorrect. I have spoken to a private investigator who told me you need the chat to be backed up in iCloud. I made him delete and then reinstall WhatsApp and the only result is that he’s lost every single chat. Nothing was backed up and he’s very upset.

I don’t feel sorry for him, but it doesn’t exactly help me that I’ve been proven wrong.

Why is it your problem to sort this? Any of it?

HE is upset now?

Wow.

Exactly he's got himself in this mess! He has no right to be upset.

Just tell him "that's a shame you deleted the chat then as this would never had happened AND you now have no way to prove to me you haven't had an affair."

Have you asked him about potentially getting the OW to send the chat? Although as I said before this isn't a fool proof plan as she could and probably will delete the incriminating messages first.

I’m not bothered he’s upset - he’s not trying to make me feel bad for it. I’m just annoyed that I got this wrong. It doesn’t make me look very smart when I’m trying to be in control of the situation.

I do apologise my information was not up to date, OP. xx

He's just deflecting OP, as others have said if he'd not deleted incriminating evidence this wouldn't have happened. This is all on him. Everything. He's not exactly falling over himself to prove there was no affair is he? Surely if he's such good friends with this girl he could contact her and explain the situation and ask her to vouch? But of course he won't because nothing would show him in a good light. What a wanker.

@LifeInAHamsterWheel

Well, quite. Its very much a side issue OP. It was him who deleted the messages -and hasn't explained why or whatwas in them - after all.

Unfortunately that method only works with android anyway.
For iPhone you need to use an app to retrieve deleted chats.
It may not be too late in that case
(and he might be pleased to get all his other chats back too!)
There is a list of apps you can use
https://www.yourbusinessnumber.com/blog/restore-deleted-whatsapp-messages-without-backup

At this point, does it actually matter what was in the messages
The fact is they were deleted which means there was something worth seeing

He sent her gifts.
He has history with other women.

I think this is a case of not being able to see the wood for the trees. Move on with the practicalities like separation instead of wasting time and money on a PI and mind games over messages.

He's cheated op. That's it.

To be honest a message from her “vouching” would suggest to me that they’re close enough (ie having an affair) for him to ask her to do that. I don’t even want him to do that.

Do you have any feelings for him….. would you even find it possible to live with him again ( as a partner) or would it be unbearable?….. if so then you should separate whether you have enough evidence or not

Sorry to hear the what's app won't be giving you definitive proof. I know this would have been helpful in your decision making. How are you feeling? Do you have a trusted friend you could talk to? Or wanting to keep it to yourself until you know for certain which way you want to go?

@badgergirl5

Her 'vouching' for him would mean less than nothing. The facts are the facts, whether or not she backs him up or admits 'all'. Personally, if I was an OW I wouldn't admit anything anyway no matter who asked me to confirm/deny.

IDK a thing about WhatsApp, I don't use it. But the fact that you may have been 'wrong' about recalling messages doesn't mean jack shit in the whole scheme of things nor does it weaken your position. You saw what you saw there and you know what you know. And he denies or makes up bullshit 'reasons' for what you saw.

Have you told him you've hired a PI? I'm not advising it BTW. I just wonder what he'd do if you said "I've hired a PI, this is your chance to come clean". But I suppose he's so mired down in his lies that he'd just keep on lying.

I guess my thing right now is, why do you care? You know he's a cheater. You know he's weak and will do it again. That right there is enough to say "Hit the road, Jack". I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with a continuing search for nuggets of truth. He's not going to admit anything. You could show him a video of him and this woman doing the nasty and he'll still lie and make up a reason why what you're seeing isn't what happened. He was giving her mouth to mouth? A bee flew down her pants and he was trying to shoo it out? They were playing 'pass the orange'? It's your decision of course, but I'd think at this point that continuing to dig and dig whilst he's blocking and dancing would be torture.

So HE deleted his WhatsApp chat with her so he couldn’t show you anything incriminating that you wouldn’t like. He did this, not you. Why is he upset? Why did he delete the whole WhatsApp app?

@badgergirl5 I'm so desperately feeling for you at this point. I'm sure you've been overwhelmed by everything you're going through, plus all the varying advice on here.

I sense that you still somehow are desperate for 'proof' or a full admission. The sad likelihood is that you won't get that - and that in itself tells you all you need to know.

I absolutely respect your instinct to protect your children, and yourself too, and I just hope you can find a way to see through all the mess and work out what is best for you.

From an outside perspective, it seems very clear that he's lied and you'll never be able to trust him again. But I know that you need to believe that for yourself too.

Lastly, I agree with many pp that you - and your children - will be much better and happier without this hanging over you. Honesty is good. And I'm certain you can make it work for you and them. Sending you the best.