Ex BIL messaging me

[thisisuttermadness]

NC for this.

Long story short, my sister and my ex BIL divorced around 6 years ago. All water under the bridge now, they don't have contact anymore, no kids together so a relatively straightforward separation. It was hard at the time as BIL had been a part of the family for a lot of years and I regarded him as more of a brother to be honest, so the separation was hard for the rest of the family but it was the right decision for my sister and we obviously stood by her as her family. I'm still friends with BIL on social media but no longer close, and in all honesty we have very little contact. I messaged him after his child was born to a new woman a couple years ago to congratulate him, and he replied thank you etc, but otherwise we don't generally speak.

Today I received a message from him out of the blue asking how I was. I replied that I was fine and asked about him etc, we had a pleasant exchange about our respective kids etc. All fine and pleasant. He then asked me if I knew why my sister was still using "his name", and that he'd discovered this recently and it bothered him. I said I didn't know why she had made this decision, and that it's not really anything to do with me, but I assumed it was because it was less hassle to keep her married name for practical reasons (my sister is a very pragmatic person). I explained this was likely the reason and he continued to state that this was "weird" and "wrong" and could I "suggest" to her that she should revert back to her maiden name. I said this wasn't my place and legally it's her name, and asked why it was a concern to him so many years down the line? He said that I wouldn't understand because I "hadn't been through it", but that this surname was "a part of him" and he didn't need the "constant reminder". Again, I asked how on earth he's being constantly reminded when he literally has no contact with my sister anymore? He couldn't answer this, just said "it's not her identity anymore, it's MY surname". I was going round in circles explaining to him that it was also in fact her legal surname to use as she wished and there was little he could do about that. He then stated that "there is only going to be one Mrs X soon and it's not her". I pointed out that there are many, many Mrs X's in the world and he didn't own the rights to that particular surname. I suggested he just focused on his new relationship/ wife to be and family and move on from what my sister chooses to do / not do. He then became defensive stating that "I don't care about her or what she does but I don't think this is right". I had to end the discussion as we were just going round in unhelpful circles and I was fed up of repeating myself.

I then spoke to my sister and she said he'd also been in touch with her recently out of the blue saying similar things, demanding to know why she wasn't changing her name. She said she told him she'd made a decision to keep the name she was known by in professional circles and just for ease. He was apparently unpleasant towards her so she ended up blocking him, hence he's now badgering her family members.

AIBU that this is just a ridiculous thing to for him to get wound up about? Why now, 6 years down the line is my sister's name suddenly an issue just because he's remarrying?! He surely cannot expect my sister to change her name just because he finds it "weird" and thinks its "not her identity"?! And also why is he bothering me with this?! I assume this has only become an issue because he's getting married again, but why should it matter? For context the surname is a very common one - think Smith / Jones - and so there'll be literally thousands of women with this name across the world and yet his new wife needs to be "the only one"?!

Aside from all of this, what has any of it got to to with me?! I wasn't even married to the guy!

The whole thing has just annoyed and baffled me and just wanted some outside perspectives! Thank you.

Have they been made aware of this?

Whilst it's not the absolute ideal, it's a great deal better than two Mrs X's. The Ms is signifying that she is no longer within the marriage, and that will likely make fiancée feel much better. There aren't two Mrs X's, there's a Ms X, and fiancée will be the only Mrs X.

@WillYouPutYourCoatOn

Have they been "made aware"? No, they haven't because my sister has had absolutely zilch contact with her ex husband for around 4 years, until he popped up with his bizarre demands and requests to change her name. We still don't even know how they were "made aware" she still uses X as her last name! My BIL dodged that question twice in my chat with him. So I can only presume they've done some online stalking of her only public online profile which is LinkedIn (which has no title on the name just first and last name).

But ultimately, it's quite frankly got naff all to do with either one of them what she calls herself. And especially when her ex husband himself stated he "wasn't bothered, it's just a name" when he was asked directly for his views post spilt.

My sister owes literally no one an explanation. Her name is her name and that's the end of it. 🤷‍♀️

The Ms is signifying that she is no longer within the marriage, and that will likely make fiancée feel much better

I am sorry but this is MADNESS to me.

There is a divorce certificate that signifies just this!! The fiancée is free to peruse that legal paperwork if she must have her mind put at rest, and my ex BIL can provide her with a copy can't he.

They can leave my sister out of it then 🤷‍♀️

What a stupid thing to say, unless your sister shows her divorce documents every time she uses this name. You're not this hard of thinking, you can't be.

In 1998 Sarah Smith married Mr CoatOn becoming Mrs CoatOn. In 2002, Sarah was Mrs CoatOn. In 2008, Sarah was Mrs CoatOn. In 2015 Sarah was Mrs CoatOn. When did Sarah get divorced? Is she even divorced? Do tell, what with her distinguishing paperwork.

But at least we have identified the actual distinguishing feature, that she uses Ms.

This is bizarre. It's not your sister's job to waste her valuable time pandering to the insecurities of these people.

And OP likewise it's not your job to pander to the jealousies and crippling insecurities of rude posters.

@WillYouPutYourCoatOn

Do you know what I've entertained your utter nonsense thus far and your very clearly minority view (judging by the rest of the thread), but I'm not entertaining deliberate rudeness. No, I am not "hard of thinking" - I just categorically very strongly disagree with you. As do many others on this thread.

My sister is not required to provide evidence to anyone that she's divorced- what the fuck has it got to do with anyone?

However, if the new fiancée is so insecure that she needs something that "signifies" that my sister is no longer a part of the marriage that she left SIX YEARS AGO, then she can reassure herself with a copy of the divorce papers can't she!?

It's not a "my sister problem", I'm afraid. It's an ex BIL and new fiancée problem.

Yeah, I'm done now. Ridiculous. 🙄

I don't understand what scenario you think you're arguing about.

It's a very common last name and these people have absolutely nothing to do with each other anymore. There is no real-life confusion and normal humans are not hearing someone introduce themselves as Jane Smith and thinking oh she must be married to the random John Smith they know from some other place. This is a silly made up obsession from either the ex or his fiance, not an actual problem.

@AGoingConcern thank you!!

I thought I was going slightly insane there for a moment 🤦🏼‍♀️😂

@thisisuttermadness you're definitely not the insane one here.

But maybe we found the crazy fiance who thinks she can get exclusive rights to a surname 😂

You truly don't see the difference between a publicly announced name seen and heard multiple times a day, and private papers that most of these people/interactions have no idea about.

This is not about her needing to see divorce papers, I really don't understand why you seem to think divorce papers matter here? She's not under any disillusion that they aren't divorced. She doesn't care about that. And you seem to think that's what she's bothered about.

But, she's probably just aware your sister is Rebecca X, and assumed because she's hung on to her ex husband's name, she's also hung on the Mrs that goes with it. But your sister goes by Ms. Very different, no misconception that she is the current wife, to anyone that hears/sees it. That's her issue, that they both could appear as the wife of the same man, at face (name) value.

But Mr CoatOn remained Mr CoatOn from 1998-2015 too - are you also concerned that no one can tell from that when he divorced? If it’s not important for him then why is it for her?

Then the solution to that would be don’t marry marry Mr Coaton. If it would really bother you, then don’t do it. If a reminder that your husband has had a previous wife is bothersome, the ex wife changing her name doesn’t make the previous marriage disappear.

The solution isn’t to insist someone else changes their name because it’s your preference.

Suggesting that when women change their name they can only remain that name as long as the man is happy about it and any new wives are happy about it, is incredibly sexist. More sexist than the tradition of a woman choosing to change her own name.

The man here was quite happy for his wife to change her name. It became her name. It’s not conditional. It became her name in the same way it would have done if she changed her name by deed poll for a different reason. It doesn’t matter how or why she came to change her name, it’s her name. If the wife to be has such an issue, that’s her issue.

Why isn’t he learning from it and insisting wife no. 2 doesn’t take his name. In case one day she is no longer part of the family?

To who?

Anyone who knows them knows who his is married to now.

Anyone who doesn’t know them isn’t going to meet ops sister and for no reason wonder if they are married to someone they have come across with the same last name.

Who is going to left wondering who the current wife is? Anyone who knows either of them well enough to make a connection is going to know she isn’t married and he is married to someone else.

Again, if people knowing your husband has an ex wife is such an issue, it’s your issue. And perhaps marrying someone who has already been married isn’t for you.

But, she's probably just aware your sister is Rebecca X, and assumed because she's hung on to her ex husband's name, she's also hung on the Mrs that goes with it. But your sister goes by Ms. Very different, no misconception that she is the current wife, to anyone that hears/sees it.

Again. For one last time because my patience is worn to the bone.

My sister does not publicly go by Ms!! She just goes by Firstname X, and if she's ever asked for a title on a form or anything, she's opts for Ms. But generally speaking on a daily basis, she's just Firstname X. That's what appears on her LinkedIn profile and her work website - again, the only possible way they could have become aware of her name as she is not on any other social media and they do not have regular contact in any other way where her name would be visible to either exH or new partner. So, if they've already seen - after stalking her online - that she's NOT prefixing her name with Mrs, and yet they've still got an issue, tell me how this fits with their outrage then?!

It makes no sense. My ex BIL's behaviour (and the new fiancée's if this is also on her) is unreasonable. You trying to defend it repeatedly is becoming embarrassing.

Best post of the thread!

This is not about her needing to see divorce papers, I really don't understand why you seem to think divorce papers matter here? She's not under any disillusion that they aren't divorced. She doesn't care about that. And you seem to think that's what she's bothered about.

No. Again - it's not ME who thinks divorce papers are important.

It's YOU who has repeatedly banged on about "how does the new partner know for sure she's divorced if she's using her married name", for example, you said:

The Ms is signifying that she is no longer within the marriage, and that will likely make fiancée feel much better.

And:

I think because it's not the identical title and surname, so can be distinguished that you are not still the current wife.

And other comments to a similar effect that I can't be bothered to scroll back and find.

Essentially it's YOU who appears VERY hung up on the need for their to be something that "signifies" (your word) the ending of the marriage between my sister and ex BIL to "make the fiancée feel better" (also your words).

So far so good?

And so, MY point in response to your insistence that the fiancée must have something to "signify" the end of her husband to be's previous marriage, to put her mind at rest, would be that she can surely reassure herself by viewing the divorce paperwork?! That is the only sensible and LEGAL indication of the ending of the marriage.

If the legal facts and paperwork don't suffice for her, and she must ALSO see evidence that my sister no longer uses X as her surname, well unfortunately for her that is entirely a HER problem.

You say "she doesn't care about that" - so she doesn't care about being reassured that my sister is no longer a LEGAL part of the marriage? Right ok. So.... what's her issue then? Because you've repeatedly said how will she have peace of mind that my sister is no longer a part of their marriage if she uses the name X...?! It doesn't make any sense.

You haven't actually been able to articulate what the actual issue is here? You've posted multiple times saying how much you'd dislike another woman to keep your current husband's surname after their divorce, but I'm still none the clearer as to WHY? Other than "well how will anyone know the marriage is over between them and that she's no longer a part of this family"? Erm, because anyone who KNOWS all parties, will know this?! And therefore does it fucking matter??

Absolute madness. Cannot - no matter how hard I try - wrap my head around the actual real life impact problem here. The answer I come back to time and time again is huge insecurity, on the part of the new fiancée. Unfortunately that's a her problem to address, not my sister's. 🤷‍♀️

she's probably just aware your sister is Rebecca X, and assumed because she's hung on to her ex husband's name, she's also hung on the Mrs that goes with it. But your sister goes by Ms. Very different, no misconception that she is the current wife, to anyone that hears/sees it.

What is this insanity?! Anyone who "sees/ hears" it?!

MY SISTER HAS A TOTALLY SEPARATE LIFE TO HER EX AND HIS PARTNER!! They live in separate areas, move in different professional and social circles, and have literally NO contact! There's no mutual friends/ family etc. just nothing to connect the two households/ families.

So HOW in the name of all that is holy, is a "misconception" going to arise of a name as common as (for example) Smith. Let's say my sister goes to an doctors appointment and gives her full name on arrival. Betty from down the road overhears her, and goes "oh, are you Mrs X as in, Mr X from NextTown's wife?" (I mean, weird question for a random person to ask anyway especially not knowing my sister and also the surname being VERY COMMON and not even unique, but let's roll with your silly example for a second). My sister presumably (confused) replies , "erm, no, I'm not married", and then goes about her day??!

What's the issue? How's ex BiL or new partner affected by the above hypothetical scenario (that is also highly unlikely to ever happen and so far fetched my brain actually hurt making it up).

You are intent on creating a problem out of NOTHING. And it's getting boring.

You can spot the insecure new girlfriends on this thread 10 miles off. Please ladies, sort it out. It is not a good look. I cannot imagine a world where another woman's name concerns me so.

This.

It’ll be the new wife-to-be who is bothered/threatened by it and giving him grief. I doubt he could care less.

Also this. Jesus wept.

I told my husband that if we ever got divorced, I'd be keeping the married surname. Because it matches my children's, I've had it for 20 plus years, my qualifications are in that name, I'm known as that name by many and I like it! The conversation came up, because my sister quickly reverted to her maiden name after her divorce.

Absolutely no.

It's not weird to continue to use Mrs even if divorced and no second wife or anyone else for that matter has any say at all nor should they. Absolutely ridiculous anyone would think they should.

I feel genuinely embarrassed on their behalf. How could you be arsed giving another woman's name this much headspace?! 🤯

@Beautiful3

But ... but..... have you considered that the new wife needs something to put her mind at rest to "signify" that you are no longer still married to your ex husband, and to avoid any misconceptions about you still being "the current wife"? How are you putting her mind at rest? How are you avoiding confusion on a day to day basis?

This is crucially important!!! (Apparently🙄)