Ex BIL messaging me

[thisisuttermadness]

NC for this.

Long story short, my sister and my ex BIL divorced around 6 years ago. All water under the bridge now, they don't have contact anymore, no kids together so a relatively straightforward separation. It was hard at the time as BIL had been a part of the family for a lot of years and I regarded him as more of a brother to be honest, so the separation was hard for the rest of the family but it was the right decision for my sister and we obviously stood by her as her family. I'm still friends with BIL on social media but no longer close, and in all honesty we have very little contact. I messaged him after his child was born to a new woman a couple years ago to congratulate him, and he replied thank you etc, but otherwise we don't generally speak.

Today I received a message from him out of the blue asking how I was. I replied that I was fine and asked about him etc, we had a pleasant exchange about our respective kids etc. All fine and pleasant. He then asked me if I knew why my sister was still using "his name", and that he'd discovered this recently and it bothered him. I said I didn't know why she had made this decision, and that it's not really anything to do with me, but I assumed it was because it was less hassle to keep her married name for practical reasons (my sister is a very pragmatic person). I explained this was likely the reason and he continued to state that this was "weird" and "wrong" and could I "suggest" to her that she should revert back to her maiden name. I said this wasn't my place and legally it's her name, and asked why it was a concern to him so many years down the line? He said that I wouldn't understand because I "hadn't been through it", but that this surname was "a part of him" and he didn't need the "constant reminder". Again, I asked how on earth he's being constantly reminded when he literally has no contact with my sister anymore? He couldn't answer this, just said "it's not her identity anymore, it's MY surname". I was going round in circles explaining to him that it was also in fact her legal surname to use as she wished and there was little he could do about that. He then stated that "there is only going to be one Mrs X soon and it's not her". I pointed out that there are many, many Mrs X's in the world and he didn't own the rights to that particular surname. I suggested he just focused on his new relationship/ wife to be and family and move on from what my sister chooses to do / not do. He then became defensive stating that "I don't care about her or what she does but I don't think this is right". I had to end the discussion as we were just going round in unhelpful circles and I was fed up of repeating myself.

I then spoke to my sister and she said he'd also been in touch with her recently out of the blue saying similar things, demanding to know why she wasn't changing her name. She said she told him she'd made a decision to keep the name she was known by in professional circles and just for ease. He was apparently unpleasant towards her so she ended up blocking him, hence he's now badgering her family members.

AIBU that this is just a ridiculous thing to for him to get wound up about? Why now, 6 years down the line is my sister's name suddenly an issue just because he's remarrying?! He surely cannot expect my sister to change her name just because he finds it "weird" and thinks its "not her identity"?! And also why is he bothering me with this?! I assume this has only become an issue because he's getting married again, but why should it matter? For context the surname is a very common one - think Smith / Jones - and so there'll be literally thousands of women with this name across the world and yet his new wife needs to be "the only one"?!

Aside from all of this, what has any of it got to to with me?! I wasn't even married to the guy!

The whole thing has just annoyed and baffled me and just wanted some outside perspectives! Thank you.

It's a ridiculous request in that her using the surname is never going to have any impact on their marriage whatsoever.

It's not so ridiculous a request if you look at it from the point of view that she only has that name because she married him and took his surname. And it is his surname. It might also be the surname of a couple of million other people but that doesn't lessen the fact that it his surname and links her to him.

This is just one reason why women should not give up their own name and identity too easily by becoming someone else on marriage.

But when the mother took that name it became her name. So his wife won’t be ‘the only one’. And to be honest the whole ‘women you can have the name as long as you are part of this family, after that you must give it up’ is more sexist than the tradition of expecting women to change their names.

and to be fair the whole ‘new wife will be the only one’ when you are on your second marriage is hilarious. She will never be the only wife he has had.

When the Ops sister changed hers, it became her name.

It’s not his name. There will be tons of people who have the name that aren’t related to him. But it’s Ops sisters name. A name she chose to take and she has every right to choose to keep her own name.

Just like the man’s mother wouldn’t have to change her name if his father divorced her.

Maybe men should think about this when they are so keen on their wife to be, taking their name. That it’s not theirs to give and take as they wish. They have no right to demand a woman changes her name if they divorce.

The man in question, should be considering this now. He could end up divorced again with 2 exs who choose to keep his name. Neither this man or the new wife or his mother have anymore right over this woman’s own name.

Yes! Much of this applies to my sister. Thank you for this post.

@Noideawwhatsoccuring
Excellent post! I do wonder if he'd be as insistent on his mother giving up "his father's" name if his parents were ever to divorce. I highly doubt it!! 🤔

This is just one reason why women should not give up their own name and identity too easily by becoming someone else on marriage.

Well if I ever marry my partner I'm going to become Mrs MyLastName-HisLastName, giving me the same surname as our daughter. Then if we ever do split I won't feel that I've lost my identity so much as I'll match my daughter, but if I wanted to change back I could just drop the second part and I'd still be basically the same person as my name was always still there

(If that makes any sense at all 😂)

But I've told him in no uncertain terms that my name is staying and his is just being added on, if we ever did marry.

It's not "hard", however it's difficult if your career, accomplishments, history and education and qualifications are all in your name. I've built a career and network over 20 yrs, yes I can "easily" go change my name officially, but when that occasion comes where someone in my network can find me because I'm not what they knew me as, or when I want to do another qualification that relies on the 15 I had in my old name, and I have to faff about going to each of the providers and sending my name change through, waiting them to update their system before I can get the required credit to do a course... rather than just booking it...

Yes it may be easy, but it's also hard....

She didn't asked who cared. She asked why the husband's mother was entitled to the name as well. And it's because she is still part of the family, that the family name relates too.

Yeah, that's just not at all how names work. The ex's mother is entitled to her name for the exact same reason OP's sister is - because it's her legal name. There is no degree of ownership, ranking system, or finite number of people who get to use a name. Men do not get to grant women the option to use their name at the man's pleasure.

Again, it is not a trademark.

@AGoingConcern

You talk a lot of sense!

And both women acquired the name by marrying a man in that family, and taking their/that family name. It is a direct connection. As I said, just because you're entitled to something, doesn't mean it's always the right or decent thing to do.

There's a lot of nastiness on this thread "yeah the weirdo stalkers obsessed with her LinkedIn". My ex appeared on my husband's LinkedIn, entirely coincidentally, via a weird mutual connection. So did my brother, similarly via a mutual connection neither realised they had. Could be a similar thing.

Lots of revelling in how the twatty ex and stalky fiancée should be wound up further, ah the hilarity. It's all really tacky.

I would dislike another woman using my married name, it's part of my marriage and she is not - especially if she continued calling herself Mrs too. Other people it wouldn't bother, but you should respect that it's actually important to some people and not carry on with the really crass "yeah I'll do what I want" attitude. There's no confusion or debate about if she's legally allowed to continue. It's whether you find it decent conduct, or not.

They clearly don't. Most people think they are incorrect to feel this way. Some of us completely understand how they feel though.

I would dislike another woman using my married name, it's part of my marriage and she is not

But it was her name first!!?

I would dislike another woman using my married name, it's part of my marriage and she is not - especially if she continued calling herself Mrs too.

It's not your married name. Your married name is Mrs. Husband's First Name and Last Name. And yes, it would be weird if OP's sister still intruduced herself as Mrs. John Smith. But at no point has OP said her sister uses Mrs., and that would just be weird for a single woman no matter what so I'm not sure what relevance you see here.

Jane Smith is her own name. It belongs to no one else, and the new wife can eff off trying to take singular ownership of a common surname. That's absurd.

It was her name by marriage, to a specific person of that name.

Pretending it's got no connection to that specific person (the fact there are unconnected hundreds of others, irrelevant) is just odd. She literally only has that name via marriage to the individual of that name.

I would really dislike to be Mrs CoatOn, married to Mr CoatOn, with another Mrs CoatOn, the ex just lingering around somewhere, always by name looking equally married to my husband. I'd be far less bothered by Ms CoatOn. I think because it's not the identical title and surname, so can be distinguished that you are not still the current wife.

I did enquire as to whether she called herself Mrs as well. OP ignored that, so I'm assuming she does.

And I've already addressed the etiquette stance, vs the common practice every day stance.

Ha ha. My sister's ex tried this on too. The new Mrs X to be wanted to be the only Mrs X.

I think my sister just rolled her eyes and did it to keep good relations for co parenting.

The new Mrs X was just really young and a bit intimidated by my sister. She's matured into a really lovely stepmother to my nephew. Both me and my sister are quite friendly with her.

Poor guy sounds like he's getting it in the neck from new Mrs x and trying to placate her.

Definitely time to block and if you know new Mrs I would be blocking her too to stop the snooping.

(If your sister is so inclined, she could change her FB name to The Original Mrs x just to wind up the new Mrs X who must be a bit bonkers)

I did enquire as to whether she called herself Mrs as well. OP ignored that, so I'm assuming she does.

Erm, I didnt "ignore" it, I'd missed it. You assume wrong. She uses Ms.

There's no confusion or debate about if she's legally allowed to continue. It's whether you find it decent conduct, or not.

Yeah... and she ASKED HIM DIRECTLY, as per my update, around 18 months after the split and he replied "it's just a name, I'm honestly not bothered". And from that you conclude that it's not "decent conduct" for my sister to take him at his word and think, ok, fine I'll keep the name I'm used to and well known by at work etc.

Then 4 YEARS later he pops up with an issue with it?! Out of the blue? And is so unpleasant to my sister she has to block him; after which he then messages her sister on social media with the same questions when it's got nowt to do with me?!

Yeah... I don't think my sister is the one who needs to think about "decent conduct" here. 🙄

If you change your name on marriage, it becomes yours. It’s then entirely your decision what you do if you divorce. I didn’t change my name when I married so when I divorced, it wasn’t an issue — but if I had changed it, it would have been my decision to keep it — or not — when my marriage ended. Your sister has a perfectly valid reason (it’s the name she’s known by professionally) for keeping her ‘married’ name but even without that, it’s her prerogative to keep it. I definitely vote for your whole family changing your names to match your sister and letting your BIL know what you’ve done…

Yeah they've no kids together thankfully as that would have made it more necessary for my sister to endure contact with him. At least with no kids involved she can block him and get on with her life as Ms X (The First) in peace 😆

I'd be far less bothered by Ms CoatOn. I think because it's not the identical title and surname, so can be distinguished that you are not still the current wife.

The distinguishing feature that identifies my sister as "not still the current wife" is the divorce paperwork!! Which is more than enough.

My Aunt got married at 18 and divorced in her late 60's. Crazy to think some actually people think she should have changed her name back to a name she hadn't used for almost 50 years!

That’s so sad that you would be willing to have a surname which you thought chiefly described your relationship to its main owner, rather than being a description of yourself in your own right.

I hope ex BILs mother changes her name ….seeing as there can be only one Mrs X … 😂

I would dislike another woman using my married name, it's part of my marriage and she is not

That would be a you problem not a her problem, as you'd be the only one bothered.