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Original poster

to think this isn't right? mother convicted if manslaughter

279 replies

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 06:43

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68223118

A jury has found a Michigan mother guilty of involuntary manslaughter for failing to stop her son from carrying out a deadly school shooting.

by all means, she didn't come across as mother of the year, but come on.
what sentence will the father get?
an absent father in a similar case?

oh america

OP posts:
sorrynotathome · 07/02/2024 06:44

We should not be at all surprised.

redfacebigdisgrace · 07/02/2024 06:46

The father is still to stand trial I believe?

AlmostAJillSandwich · 07/02/2024 06:47

Nature or nurture, she and her husband created and raised him, they can't just wash their hands of any responsibility of crimes he comits whilst a minor.

ArrestHer · 07/02/2024 06:48

There are a few things here.

based on the BBC reporting, she ignored his MH issues, refused engagement with the school, and despite knowledge of MH issues bought him the gun with which he killed those people.

while my personal view is manslaughter is a stretch, she gave him the means to do what he did knowing that he was struggling and school were concerned about his mental state. in this particular instance i do wonder if there is more in the evidence than has come out in the news.

Original poster
greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 06:48

the snippets I have seen of her hearing in court were brutal.

no, I'm not surprised.

I hope she is able to appeal.

OP posts:
Zanatdy · 07/02/2024 06:51

Well I think she deserved the conviction having read the story and saw a report on BBC this morning. She refused to get him therapy, left him in school after getting called in after teachers find a drawing of a school shooting, knowing she bought him a gun months earlier for Christmas. The child was crying out for mental health help. Sorry but who buys an unstable 15yr old a gun. If that was my child killed I’d be celebrating her conviction. She could have prevented this and she pretty much caused it. Too busy having an affair to bring her son home from school and then he killed 4 children.

Owlontheprowl · 07/02/2024 06:51

They bought him the gun when he was under the legal age to possess a gun.

PeopleAreWeird · 07/02/2024 06:52

She gave her 15 year old Son with mental health issues a gun

He killed 4 children with that gun

If he didn't have that gun, they wouldn't be dead

Make your own conclusion

AreolaGrande · 07/02/2024 06:54

YABU.

She and her husband repeatedly ignored their son's direct requests for mental health support and his disturbing behaviour.

School contacted the parents asking them to come and pick Ethan up due to his disturbing behaviour/violent drawings/admissions of thoughts of harming others. School offered info on where the parents could access same day crisis MH support for Ethan. The parents refused to pick him up claiming they were too busy at work.

The parents bought a teenager who was showing all the classic signs of depression/potential for violent behaviour A FUCKING GUN.

They let him live in total squalor in his room.

This is only a tiny portion of the details of the case.

She and her husband are absolutely responsible for what Ethan did.

Josette77 · 07/02/2024 06:56

He begged for help.
He was having hallucinations.
She refused to get him any help.

Her husband instead bought him a gun.

She couldn't be bothered with a meeting that day about her disturbed sons drawing of a school shooting.

The parents absolutely should be charged.

They gave a child experiencing hallucinations a fucking gun.

He's a victim of his parents as well.
Perhaps the biggest one.

2in13 · 07/02/2024 06:56

The father is yet to have his trial.
Both parents were allegedly found hiding after the shooting.

They bought him a gun.

According to a report, they were called to a school for a meeting on that day but refused to take him home despite what he had drawn.

He carried out the shooting later that day.

It would be interesting to know how the father's trial goes.

Luckydog7 · 07/02/2024 06:57

Its so dangerous to start finding other people to blame here. They mentioned blaming the school too! they can make no headway putting responsibility on the actual problem, gun laws that allow 15 year olds to buy/use guns (tbh adults too without a licence) and mental health services/medical systems.

I realise it's an unusual case. The claims that he was mentally ill (hallucinations etc) do suggest he was in genuine need and him having a crisis was predictable.

This wouldn't be nearly as sensational if the parents were tried together as intended. It will be telling if the farther gets less severe sentencing especially if it's true that he was the one who bought the gun.

Itsallok · 07/02/2024 06:57

The husband is still to stand trial - they are being tried separately. And yes, she deserves everything she gets

AlltheFs · 07/02/2024 06:57

She’s absolutely guilty! As is the father, they literally enabled him to kill and did absolutely nothing to address his known mental health issues.
I am no fan of the US or their justice system but I don’t see anything wrong with this. The father will very likely receive equal punishment.

FoxglovesInBloom · 07/02/2024 06:58

If memory serves she bought him the gun and when he was busted at school for searching for ammunition online she texted him

"Seriously?? Looking up bullets at school?" Jennifer Crumbley wrote in a Nov. 29 text message she sent her son.

He told her he was curious.

"LOL I’m not mad," Jennifer Crumbley texted her son. "You have to learn how to not get caught."

This was the day before the shooting.

The US has school shootings, it isn't something that never happens, how his parents couldn't see this potentially happening at 100 mile away is ridiculous, children are now dead.

Kinneddar · 07/02/2024 06:58

I hope she is able to appeal

I sincerely hope she isn't. She absolutely deserves the sentence and I hope her husband gets the same at his trial.

I dont understand how any rational person could think she's been treated unfairly

Sirzy · 07/02/2024 07:00

From what I have heard of this case it is right. They not only ignored warning signs but they enabled him and the refused to help.

Original poster
greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 07:00

what she did was cruel and she should be charged. yes. with child neglect or whatever that charge would be where she is.
but manslaughter?

she seems to have mental health problems as well. maybe her parents need to be charged as well then?

OP posts:
paulhollywoodshairgel · 07/02/2024 07:16

From what I understand it's about the fact they bought their underage child a gun knowing he had mh issues. They refused to engage in treatment for said issues and he went on to murder 4 people.

Brefugee · 07/02/2024 07:22

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 07:00

what she did was cruel and she should be charged. yes. with child neglect or whatever that charge would be where she is.
but manslaughter?

she seems to have mental health problems as well. maybe her parents need to be charged as well then?

If she shot up a school as a minor under those circs, sure.

Sparklfairy · 07/02/2024 07:26

At her trial, prosecutors presented evidence that Ethan Crumbley had wanted mental health help and complained of hallucinations, but said his parents did not get him treatment. Ms Crumbley said on the stand that she did not think her son had mental health problems.

The morning of the shooting, the parents cut short a school meeting about a disturbing drawing their son had made to go to work and declined to take the then 15-year-old home.

This is pretty damning tbh. The school shooting was in 2021 so he was what, 15 when he did it? The parents are responsible too when they were so negligent about his MH. She sounds like she was in complete denial and bought him a gun just days before it happened fgs.

GreyhpundGirl · 07/02/2024 07:33

The father is standing trial too- they chose to be tried separately. She is not the victim here. Buying an unstable child a gun, you know, an object that has one clear purpose, makes her culpable. And the jury agreed.

heldinadream · 07/02/2024 07:34

On the contrary, I think it's through convictions like this one that the US is going to get to grips with changing its gun laws at last, because there will finally be people beginning to be held to account.

I'd like to see the sellers of guns and the NRA pursued too, but that's a bit down the line. This, though, is a refreshing move forward.

I'd also like to see proper mental health treatment in prisons, but as we don't even have that here I can't see it happening in the US yet. But that would be the next positive step.

ProfessionalBuilding · 07/02/2024 07:36

I’ve only seen the basic facts in the news and not sure on the law.

Someone being criminally responsible for someone else’s (independently planned) act seems very strange, instinctively, but these seem like extraordinary circumstances.

If you are a parent, you know your child has mental health issues and refuse treatment, you buy them a gun, you know they’re online browsing for ammunition while at school (and are comfortable with that), you are called into school because your child is drawing pictures of mass shootings and you refuse (despite the school’s requests) to remove him from the school and get urgent mental health support….then, in all those circumstances, you are recklessly exposing the community to a high risk of death.

Alcyoneus · 07/02/2024 07:37

Feckless parents of feral kids should be held responsible. If you can’t raise your kids properly, you are answerable for inflicting them on society.

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