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Original poster

to think this isn't right? mother convicted if manslaughter

279 replies

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 06:43

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68223118

A jury has found a Michigan mother guilty of involuntary manslaughter for failing to stop her son from carrying out a deadly school shooting.

by all means, she didn't come across as mother of the year, but come on.
what sentence will the father get?
an absent father in a similar case?

oh america

OP posts:
IIdentifyAsInnocent · 07/02/2024 07:39

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 07:00

what she did was cruel and she should be charged. yes. with child neglect or whatever that charge would be where she is.
but manslaughter?

she seems to have mental health problems as well. maybe her parents need to be charged as well then?

Giving a mentally unwell child a gun, is more than neglect.

HRTQueen · 07/02/2024 07:39

If it was her only standing trial I would be questioning this why just her

but the father is yet to stand trial

and absolutely his very serious needs were neglected and decisions made that endangered his life and others with the terrible consequences that followed

WhyIOughtTo · 07/02/2024 07:43

I've listened to the whole trial on court TV.

She lied when she said she didn't approve of him having a gun. She thought it was the bees knees and told all her mates.

She took him to shooting ranges.

He repeatedly asked her for help. He kept telling them he was hallucinating and they bought him a gun. At fifteen because it was in the Black Friday sale.

She completely neglected him as a child and spent all of her time with horses.

She cut the meeting short at school on the day of the shootings and she knew he had a gun that wasn't secured.

The school asked the parents to take him home and they refused. They didn't ask him about the gun or go and see if it was at home.

After the school sent a text to say there was an active shooter she knew it was her son.

WhyIOughtTo · 07/02/2024 07:45

The parents chose to sever their cases at the start.

Fooshufflewickjbannanapants · 07/02/2024 07:45

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 07:00

what she did was cruel and she should be charged. yes. with child neglect or whatever that charge would be where she is.
but manslaughter?

she seems to have mental health problems as well. maybe her parents need to be charged as well then?

She has been found guilty of INVOLUNTARY manslaughter. This is the same charge as Alec Baldwin is facing (again) for fatally shooting his director. It's about negligence and knowing that an action can have deadly consequences. As a parent I know if I buy an unstable underage teen a deadly weapon who has been drawing pictures of a school shooting and researching ammo it can absolutely have devastating consequences.

Fridaysgirl17 · 07/02/2024 07:47

They tried Ethan her son as an adult, they fought to try him as an adult, yet now they are saying he is a minor who's parents are responsible, it's slightly contradictory, I do think the parents bear responsibility but manslaughter no I don't think that's right & i think it's setting an ugly precedent in America, also some commentators who are lawyers etc in America have said the judge was off & left this open for appeal easily by refusing to make proper rulings etc. The trial obviously took place in the community it happened & i don't think it eas ever going to go any other way due to that.

MrsBungle · 07/02/2024 07:48

I totally disagree. Both parents should be held responsible in these circumstances.

Mothership4two · 07/02/2024 07:49

TBH I don't have much sympathy for her. The families of the victims however...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/jennifer-crumbley-involuntary-manslaughter-conviction-b2491754.html

Littlecatsfeet · 07/02/2024 07:51

I support this 100%. If you put someone incompetent behind the wheel of a car and they then proceed to run someone over, you should be found guilty of manslaughter. Likewise if you give a minor a gun and do not ensure it's locked up without access any time you're not at the firing range, you're partially responsible for any crimes they commit with that gun.

Maybe America will sit up and suddenly be more interested in gun control if parents think they might be found guilty if their kid shoots someone. It's insane how many people leave guns lying around the house, in their bedside table or hung on the wall and not locked up safe.

It's a long overdue and necessary step, imo.

Littlecatsfeet · 07/02/2024 07:52

MrsBungle · 07/02/2024 07:48

I totally disagree. Both parents should be held responsible in these circumstances.

The husband's trial is next month. He better be found guilty too.

OneCornetto · 07/02/2024 07:52

Why do you have such strong feelings about a case that you know hardly anything about. You hope she has the chance of an appeal but you have only seen snippets of the case?

James and Jennifer Crumbley enabled their son to kill four children. Shooting them in the back of the head whilst they were at school. They bought a gun for a child who was obsessed with violence. They were called into the school because he was researching ammunition and Jennifer told him not to get caught.

If I bought my fifteen year old son a sports car and told him to go for it and do some donuts on the road where your child was walking to school would you not be a bit cross at me if he mowed them down?

redskybluewater · 07/02/2024 07:53

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 07:00

what she did was cruel and she should be charged. yes. with child neglect or whatever that charge would be where she is.
but manslaughter?

she seems to have mental health problems as well. maybe her parents need to be charged as well then?

We need to draw the line somewhere . she is the supposedly "responsible" adult in the situation, and her son the minor. If he had been an adult and had bought the gun himself she wouldn't have been on trial.

I am responsible for my choices regarding my child and if those decisions mean that tragedy occurs I accept I may need to explain them to others and eventually pay the consequences.

Mothership4two · 07/02/2024 07:53

She illegally and immorally bought a child a gun!

Alwaysalwayscold · 07/02/2024 07:53

Do you actually know anything about the case OP or have you just read the headlines?

This woman's sentence was absolutely deserved.

Notmyfirstusername · 07/02/2024 07:53

She called him her “oopsie baby” and a weirdo to her friend .
I think she was expecting him to sort out his own mental health issues with the gun as she saw him as a burden and instead he turned it on others. In my opinion that was part of why the jury found her guilty. I believe she fully expected someone to die which is why when his parents heard about gunshots at school, the first thing they did was check for the gun and bullets. If you didn’t have an idea your son was likely to harm himself or someone else, why would you do that in an area where guns were popular?
They also stole Ethan’s savings to help with their escape rather than get him a lawyer as well as admitting on the stand she wouldn’t change a thing about her actions. This was far outside the actions of the average school shooter parents we have seen so far.

SchoolQuestionnaire · 07/02/2024 07:56

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 07:00

what she did was cruel and she should be charged. yes. with child neglect or whatever that charge would be where she is.
but manslaughter?

she seems to have mental health problems as well. maybe her parents need to be charged as well then?

She’s an adult and her ds was 15. Surely you can understand the difference.

JustMarriedBecca · 07/02/2024 07:56

It made me uncomfortable when I first read it. And yes, there are arguments that her parents too are culpable as she's also clearly a fruit loop.

But actually if this starts a trend whereby the sellers, manufacturers etc of guns are also held to account, let's do it.

Hereyoume · 07/02/2024 07:57

AlmostAJillSandwich · 07/02/2024 06:47

Nature or nurture, she and her husband created and raised him, they can't just wash their hands of any responsibility of crimes he comits whilst a minor.

How was she supposed to forsee it?

Rediculous verdict.

Sirzy · 07/02/2024 07:58

Hereyoume · 07/02/2024 07:57

How was she supposed to forsee it?

Rediculous verdict.

Show quote history

Well she could have foreseen that buying her son who had obvious mental health problems a gun would be a problem surely?

they knew their son wasn’t well. Instead of listening to his cries for help they refused to engage with school and purchased him a gun.

Sususudio · 07/02/2024 07:58

Perhaps she could have foreseen that if you buy a 15 yr old with hallucinations gun and then laugh when he buys ammunition, something may go wrong.

doilooklikeicare · 07/02/2024 07:59

PeopleAreWeird · 07/02/2024 06:52

She gave her 15 year old Son with mental health issues a gun

He killed 4 children with that gun

If he didn't have that gun, they wouldn't be dead

Make your own conclusion

This....

I think it's a fair conviction.

Fooshufflewickjbannanapants · 07/02/2024 08:00

@Hereyoume he was actively researching ammo, drawing school shooting pictures and telling her and his father he needed help how could she NOT foresee it?!?

Noideawwhatsoccuring · 07/02/2024 08:01

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 07:00

what she did was cruel and she should be charged. yes. with child neglect or whatever that charge would be where she is.
but manslaughter?

she seems to have mental health problems as well. maybe her parents need to be charged as well then?

Both parents have been charged and the father is yet to stand trial.

The parents have been charged because their actions (buying the gun for him, knowing he had mental health issues, knowing he was planning this and withholding lots of information from the school) directly led to 4 people losing their lives.

I believe he was caught at school googling ammunition and the school called the mother and she didn’t answer. They left a message which she picked up immediately. And her response was to tell her son she wasn’t going to punish him, but that he had to get better at not getting caught.

They haven’t been charged with manslaughter because they were inadequate parents that didn’t raise their son properly. They have been charged because of their actions directly led to the murders.

Juni11 · 07/02/2024 08:03

i think it’s appropriate that both parents are charged. They neglected their child by failing to access available mental health assessment and support for his VERY obvious issues. They provided him with a weapon. They took absolutely no responsibility for monitoring THEIR child’s internet access and activity. It’s seems like they opted out of parenting. They failed him and the community and should face consequences.

MooseAndSquirrelLoveFlannel · 07/02/2024 08:04

She got involuntary manslaughter which imo is correct. She didn't mean for people to die, but as a consequence of her and her husbands lack of foresight, parenting and responsible gun ownership other children lost their lives.

She IS responsible for that.

I hope this will make more American parents rethink their gun ownership ideals and purchasing weapons for children and take it more seriously when their family members display troubling behaviour.