Page 6 | to think this isn't right? mother convicted if manslaughter

Messyhair321 · 07/02/2024 10:04

We can't have it both ways, have all the rights & responsibilities of parents & then not take some responsibility when something like this goes wrong because we didn't act.

Huge mistakes & gaps I imagine, sounds like everyone failed including the school system.
I'm not a fan of punishing in this way anyway, the lad said he was struggling mentally, this is a huge red flag, he must have been in a terrible way to ask for help. Then to be ignored by his parents.

I don't think prison will change what's happened. I just hope that we're not heading in the same direction - state of the services though in this country...

KreedKafer · 07/02/2024 10:06

The father has yet to stand trial so you have no idea of the facts of the case, the particular involvement of each parent and whether it differed, or what sentence he’ll get.

An absent father would not be sentenced because if he was absent he wouldn’t have done anything that directly contributed to the child’s crime. The manslaughter charge isn’t about being ‘a bad parent’. It’s about doing things that directly contributed to the crime - eg buying a disturbed child a gun, refusing to engage with his school, not taking the gun away when they knew he fantasised about shooting his classmates, not disclosing the fact that he had free access to a gun etc etc.

Rosscameasdoody · 07/02/2024 10:07

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 08:31

I feel sorry for the victims and their families.

I also feel sorry for the mother who is in an impossible position.

and yes to gun laws being the elephant in the room. but the gun lobby will never admit to being the cause of countless deaths.

Why do you feel sorry for the mother ? If she’s in an impossible position now, it’s of her own making. She bought her son a gun despite all the massive red flags he was waving, and now people are dead. She enabled him.

IvorTheEngineDriver · 07/02/2024 10:07

She was not convicted of manslughter she was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. That matters. Her husband has still to stand his trial on the same charge.

Given the facts of the case as they came out in Court, if her lawyers can't find a point of law, I don't see much chance of an appeal.

Messyhair321 · 07/02/2024 10:11

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 07:00

what she did was cruel and she should be charged. yes. with child neglect or whatever that charge would be where she is.
but manslaughter?

she seems to have mental health problems as well. maybe her parents need to be charged as well then?

I don't know if you can say because she had mental health issues she gave her son a gun? Even if she does have issues though, & even if he did it just shows the state of the country they're living in , that no-one took any of this seriously. And I don't think prison will help anyone now. It's just not the answer

pam290358 · 07/02/2024 10:13

Toddlerteaplease · 07/02/2024 09:53

Apparently the school are also to blame for not checking his bag, before sending him back to class. It's a bit like the criticism a school caretaker got a few years ago, for not trying to stop a live shooter.

Unless the school, or indeed the caretaker at that school actually went out and supplied the gun used, it’s not remotely the same thing.

Denimdenimdenim · 07/02/2024 10:14

With the amount of shootings happening in the USA by minors. I welcome guilty verdicts for parents with cases like this.

Super sad and upsettingly avoidable.

CrabbiesGingerBeer · 07/02/2024 10:15

itsmyp4rty · 07/02/2024 09:58

Cutting a school meeting short because you have to get to work or otherwise you're potentially going to lose your job isn't necessarily a terrible thing IMO. Kids write and draw all sorts of disturbing things in their diaries (for example) so the parents just might not have taken it seriously if they didn't care that much. And saying he was going to do 'something dumb' could literally mean anything - otherwise we should also blame the person who received that text for not alerting the police. I didn't read the 'don't get caught' comment on the BBC but if that was said in relation to him buying ammo then it could have been in relation to buying gun ammo under age.

I'm not making excuse for someone being a shit parent, i just think they should be tried for neglect not for a crime their child committed in a country where it is perfectly legal to buy your child a gun.

Again, by focusing on the parents it's avoids looking at the real reason shootings like this are a huge problem in the US - gun laws.

Edited

I thought the prosecutor called the boss to give evidence he would have been fine with her taking the time to look after her son?

Jacopo · 07/02/2024 10:15

The parents bought the gun. They’re guilty.

SecretKeeper1 · 07/02/2024 10:15

I think it’s brilliant, and I hope it sparks a trend of prosecuting these stupid parents. Might make the rest of the stupidos think twice about putting a gun in the hands of their oddball loner child.

Peaceandquietandacuppa · 07/02/2024 10:17

ProfessionalBuilding · 07/02/2024 07:36

I’ve only seen the basic facts in the news and not sure on the law.

Someone being criminally responsible for someone else’s (independently planned) act seems very strange, instinctively, but these seem like extraordinary circumstances.

If you are a parent, you know your child has mental health issues and refuse treatment, you buy them a gun, you know they’re online browsing for ammunition while at school (and are comfortable with that), you are called into school because your child is drawing pictures of mass shootings and you refuse (despite the school’s requests) to remove him from the school and get urgent mental health support….then, in all those circumstances, you are recklessly exposing the community to a high risk of death.

This!

SylvanianFrenemies · 07/02/2024 10:17

If your child had been shot by another child whose parents:

Refused him the mental health help he wanted.
Bought him a gun.
Encouraged him not to get caught looking up ammunition.
Refused to engage with school concerns.
Left him in school with a gun when he had drawn a picture of a school shooting.

Would you not feel those parents bore responsibility for the actions of their child?

wronginalltherightways · 07/02/2024 10:18

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 07:00

what she did was cruel and she should be charged. yes. with child neglect or whatever that charge would be where she is.
but manslaughter?

she seems to have mental health problems as well. maybe her parents need to be charged as well then?

If a shop knowingly provided a 15 year old with a gun they would be facing charges.

If a shop knowingly provided someone with a history of mental issues with a gun, they would be facing charges.

The mother did both.

I have zero sympathy for her.

Original poster

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 10:20

I have 3 teens.
two of them are naice, rounded young people. one is a bit of a whirlwind who I expect to get into some sort of trouble.
it's tiring. it saps energy. it costs time all the meetings with school and healthcare.
I'm concerned of a conviction like that.

maybe the mother used to be engaged but due to her own mental health was no longer able to. and again, why didn't the father step up and engage with school/health services.
I know there will be a separate trial for the father but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets off any charges because of his sex.

OP posts:

beatrix1234 · 07/02/2024 10:22

If you buy a gun to your child with MH problems and does something stupid you will be responsible as a parent. No ifs and buts. You should have known better than putting a firearm in the hand of a child with MH problems.

Hoolahoophop · 07/02/2024 10:22

A few people want to blame the gun laws and not the mother.

How about blaming everyone culpable.

The gun laws which have flooded the country with uncontrolled weapons.
The individuals who choose to use those weapons against others.
The individuals who knowingly provide those weapons to unstable, unpredictable individuals who pose a large risk to others.

Sususudio · 07/02/2024 10:23

MH is not an excuse to buy your disturbed teen a gun and tell him not to get caught when he buys ammo.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 07/02/2024 10:25

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 06:43

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68223118

A jury has found a Michigan mother guilty of involuntary manslaughter for failing to stop her son from carrying out a deadly school shooting.

by all means, she didn't come across as mother of the year, but come on.
what sentence will the father get?
an absent father in a similar case?

oh america

When I saw the headline I thought the same as you but when I read on I thought well done the jury.

she bought her 17 year old a gun for fucks sake!

Therefore YABVVVVVVVU I hope she and the father both get the maximum permitted sentence

TooOldForThisNonsense · 07/02/2024 10:25

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 06:43

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68223118

A jury has found a Michigan mother guilty of involuntary manslaughter for failing to stop her son from carrying out a deadly school shooting.

by all means, she didn't come across as mother of the year, but come on.
what sentence will the father get?
an absent father in a similar case?

oh america

When I saw the headline I thought the same as you but when I read on I thought well done the jury.

she bought her 17 year old a gun for fucks sake!

Therefore YABVVVVVVVU I hope she and the father both get the maximum permitted sentence

PukkaPi · 07/02/2024 10:27

PeopleAreWeird · 07/02/2024 06:52

She gave her 15 year old Son with mental health issues a gun

He killed 4 children with that gun

If he didn't have that gun, they wouldn't be dead

Make your own conclusion

This.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 07/02/2024 10:27

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 07:00

what she did was cruel and she should be charged. yes. with child neglect or whatever that charge would be where she is.
but manslaughter?

she seems to have mental health problems as well. maybe her parents need to be charged as well then?

Did her parents buy her a gun as a child she used to kill other people with?

Sweetdreams98 · 07/02/2024 10:29

greenacrylicpaint · 07/02/2024 10:20

I have 3 teens.
two of them are naice, rounded young people. one is a bit of a whirlwind who I expect to get into some sort of trouble.
it's tiring. it saps energy. it costs time all the meetings with school and healthcare.
I'm concerned of a conviction like that.

maybe the mother used to be engaged but due to her own mental health was no longer able to. and again, why didn't the father step up and engage with school/health services.
I know there will be a separate trial for the father but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets off any charges because of his sex.

The difference is you go to the school and talk about not-so-naice son, she ignored the school, then ignored the warnings about drawings of dead people and guns, and when the school called her, she refused to go and pick up his son.
Oh and she taught him to shoot. And when he was on the internet looking at ammunitions , and the school called her , she didn't answer, but instead send her son a text saying: lol, I am not mad at you, you have to learn not to get caught.

I don't get these pathetic attempts to defend her. It has nothing to do with sex, to mental health, or anything. She is a disgrace and deserves every single one of those 15 years.

wednesday32 · 07/02/2024 10:29

this woman purchased a gun for her sun who was not of legal age. The gun and ammo was readily available for the son to access, and he took them to a school. This woman also sent a message to her son joking about shooting people at school. The deaths could have been prevented by this woman's actions so yes she is also responsible. In America you do not have to be the one that pulls the trigger to be found guilty of murder. This woman knew the law and was legally responsible for a child under 18. The father is also on trial and I suspect will also get a similar sentence.

FetchezLaVache · 07/02/2024 10:30

This really isn't the feminist cause you make it out to be, OP.

Brefugee · 07/02/2024 10:31

Fridaysgirl17 · 07/02/2024 07:47

They tried Ethan her son as an adult, they fought to try him as an adult, yet now they are saying he is a minor who's parents are responsible, it's slightly contradictory, I do think the parents bear responsibility but manslaughter no I don't think that's right & i think it's setting an ugly precedent in America, also some commentators who are lawyers etc in America have said the judge was off & left this open for appeal easily by refusing to make proper rulings etc. The trial obviously took place in the community it happened & i don't think it eas ever going to go any other way due to that.

I think the US is bonkers about hiw/when they decide to try children as adults.

That is my only issue with this.

Aren't there crimes of "joint enterprise" where even if you don't know your accomplice has a weapon and/or you don't even pull the trigger you can still be found guilty of murder (and in some cases be sentenced to death)?