To answer my friend honestly about her partner

[Whatdoyouthink65]

Context: My best friend from school and I have fairly infrequent contact now, but are both still available when one or other needs something ( like an opinion or a venting row about something). We don’t see each other much for geographical, familial commitment and conflicting work schedules. My friend has one child from a previous relationship which ended with acrimonious divorce and complex nasty custody battle.
When she met that person I did not like him, told her so nicely ( when she asked for my honest opinion- not unsolicited) and it changed our relationship for a long time. When she got divorced she actually confessed that my concerns about him had been entirely valid and she wished she had listened. I never hold this against her because we’ve all been guilty of being ‘rose tinted’ about partners at some point. After the divorce our relationship returned to how its was pre mariage.

She has a new partner of approximately one year. They appear very happy together and have moved in together- she plans to have another child ( his first bio) soon. He has fully accepted her daughter and has stepped into the ‘ dad’ role fully.

We arranged for us to all meet up recently and she wanted my honest opinion about him. I’m really torn about being honest with her again and potentially ruining our relationship or not acting on my gut and telling her a blasé “ yea he’s nice” answer.

I don’t have issues with everyone at all; in fact I can think of very few other people I don’t like. On the surface there is nothing to dislike about him. He’s polite and as above seemingly makes her feel good/ happy. I just didn’t warm to him initially and always trust my gut , but gave him benefit of doubt ( maybes he’s nervous etc).

However, my toddler took herself to the toilet in our house, then shouted for me when she needed her bum wiping ( as is normal for ourhouse) he got up at the same time as me and I assumed he was going to check on his step daughter who was playing alone in our house at that point. He wasn’t; he opened the toilet door and went to wipe my toddlers bum. Thankfully I was only a step behind him, slid myself between him and her and closed the door, saying that I would do it. My toddler looked terrified at someone she just met an hour earlier being in the bathroom with her ( she’s fairly shy and had barely spoken to him).
it made me REALLY uncomfortable, but I tried to think maybe he was just trying to be helpful although it couldn’t shake being uncomfortable.

later the same day me, my partner, my friend and the new boyfriend went for dinner with their 1 child, our toddler and our 8m old. During dinner our toddler asked her dad to pass some crayons, and the boyfriend seemingly misheard and said “ oh you need the toilet , I’ll take you, come on”. Before I even had chance to interject my partner had immediately said no and passed her the crayons she had actually asked for.

the boyfriend also undermined us several times ( for health reasons we don’t allow our toddler commercial desserts because we can’t measure the sugar in them) their daughter was having a dessert and we had said our toddler could have fruit ( she’s normally very happy with this), she had a bit of envy and asked why she couldn’t have chocolate brownies too and I explained it, she accepted it and then immediately after, the boyfriend said “ don’t listen to mummy uncle will buy you a brownie”. Again we stopped this, but there was a few incidents throughout the day of this nature.

I have real concerns as to his safety around small girls although I have nothing more than my opinion/ feelings to present to my friend.

my friend has text asking “ what do you think?”
would it be unreasonable based on the described incident above to answer her honestly saying that I have some concerns or should I give a safe answer of “ yeah he seems nice”.

Let’s be honest, this is fucking weird.

Not one, but two clumsy attempts to be alone with a very young girl in the toilet. How much more information would you need to be alarmed?

I think you have to tell her, as tactfully as you can. Don’t mention the diabetes stuff, just the two attempts to be alone, in a toilet with a little girl he had just met.

He isn't definitely a paedophile. It's odd behaviour and shows poor boundaries but I think the tone of some of this commentary is OTT. You did the right thing to deflect it in the moment OP, but yelling 'get away from her you pervert' would have been, in my view, a step too far.

My kids have a very active friendship circle, as a result we've had loads of kids round here over the years for playdates. From toddler age. My DH is a very hands on dad and gets fully involved in play dates etc, he's known lots of these kids since they were babies and knows the parents. He sets up games for them and waits on them hand and foot. I can tell you with 100% certainty, that he would never dream of wiping a child's bum (apart from our own and his nephews when they were in nappies) He doesn't even go in DDs bedroom when she's got friends over for a sleepover.
I find it really hard to believe that your friends new chap is that lacking in self awareness and societal expectations, that he doesn't know that he shouldn't be offering to wipe a young child's bum or offer to take them to the toilet. Alarm bells would be deafening to me! Your friends child is at risk.
I'd tell her your concerns.

My gut instinct is that you must say something because her daughter might be at risk here. I could never forgive myself if I noticed these red flags, ignored them and a child got hurt!!

Sorry, OP, I really don't envy you in this situation.

Tell your friend to meet up in person and just be honest, that you found the toilet thing weird.

I know where you are coming from, and I get it, let's not jump to conclusions.
Some people have poor boundaries.

But as someone who deals with regular safeguarding, sadly I would say that this behaviour is exactly the sort of thing which is a cause for concern. Men don't usually have such 'poor boundaries' in an area like this unless they have ill intent.

I don't understand woman who are so desperate to be in relationships that they put their children at risk! My now ex best friend was exactly the same. She had several bad relationships, all of which I helped her eacape at some point, then met a man who seemed lovely to start with, then turned abusive, she saw all the red flags, still decided to move herself and her 2 children in, despite all our discussions on his bizarre behaviour! It all ramped up when she gave up her house and moved in with him. He used to take the house phone to work, lock her in, leave her and her kids without food, while he bought food in for his kids (from his previous marriage) weekend visits. The list was endless! Then, she married him!!! I point blank refused to go to the wedding and months down the line, I was organising to help her leave him. She wanted the perfect relationship, but in truth, I believe that was her and her desperation were the problem all along. Thankfully, she immediately ghosted me on the day our mutual friend was found dead, after I'd let her know. My life is so much calmer without all the drama her love life brought to our door!
Please tell your friend the truth OP, good luck ❤

Yes, I think this is how I would handle it too.

It's perfectly possible (and in fact, probably a lot more likely) that as someone who doesn't have kids of his own and has only just stepped into a stepdad role with your friend, he's just clueless about what's normal to help out with and what isn't, was trying to make a good impression about how great he is with kids, and massively misjudged it. However, even if that's all it was, I would absolutely still want to make my friend aware that I'd noticed it and found it odd/inappropriate.

You don't have to say 'So, I think your boyfriend might be a paedo - all that 'let uncle wipe your bottom' stuff was really fucking creepy' because clearly she is not going to take that well. But you can certainly say 'What's his experience with kids? He seemed quite full on with DD - I mean, stepping in to wipe her bum and offering to take her to the loo was a bit much, right?'

At absolute best, he has incredibly poor boundaries and no sense of appropriate behaviour towards children.

At worst, he’s a paedophile.

Frankly, there is so much knowledge of child sex offending these days that I don’t believe the former. If he was learning disabled or neurodiverse to the point he didn’t understand he shouldn’t act like this (bearing in mind most learning disabled / neurodiverse people would never behave in the same way), it would be obvious in all aspects of his behaviour not just in the way he acts towards children.

I don’t like the sound of that at all. Twice he has tried to be around your daughter when she is on or he thinks she wants in the toilet? It is beyond inappropriate for a friend’s partner even if he had known you for years.

You can tell your friend your gut feeling and of course you are risking her not liking it. You were right last time though and she may be swayed by that. I wouldn’t want him around my child, and a single mother I would be ultra wary of men’s interactions with my child so would want you to say something.

Unfortunately if she always needs to be in a relationship, toxic or otherwise, she may not listen. You should say something anyway though.

Do you feel able to be honest with your friend or do you think she will be upset if you don't tell her what she wants to hear? What is she hoping to get out of asking? She may likely dismiss your opinion again if its not all positive points so, it seems rather pointless even answering her question. Perhaps she's not fully secure in her choice of partner and wants reassurance that he's actually a good guy.

Trust. Your. Gut.

Doesn't matter about whether you warm to him or not. The only thing that matters here is the toileting stuff. Not normal at all. I'd keep him completely away from my dc and in good conscience I'd have to say something even if it altered the friendship.

How old is her dd?

I'd also want to seek some professional advice. The whole thing sounds deeply concerning.

I have had my own experience with a child abuser and manipulation is something they are very good at. Wearing a mask to hide behind, being helpful and trustworthy gaining the trust of a vulnerable adult so when and if it comes out it's so unbelievable because they were just so nice, so kind and caring they did so much for them and treated the child like his own it couldn't possibly be true. However it can be true and child abuse is sadly rife and unless we all learn some of the signs and speak up in the clearest way these men (and some women) continue to abuse the most vulnerable in our society.

It's shocking to discover that someone you knew and trusted is a paedophile and the aftermath for those children is devastating. So I wouldn't be outright calling him an abuser but I would be very clear in pointing out the red flags.

You've previously told her what you think of a partner and it spoiled your relationship.
If you have genuine concerns about this man and his behaviour around children then tell her and be damned whether the relationship survives or not.

I usually tell the truth when asked, I always check if they want my honest opinion. But I am well known for being quite outspoken (I'm not a complete dick about it)

One friend broke up with him, then got back together and got married and we've never really got over it. Her DH is an arsehole though.

@Whatdoyouthink65 I truly did not mean to imply that you are implicit or condoning any kind of exploitation. Apologies if worded badly.

I meant that when someone has behaved so outside of social norms and appropriate boundaries as this man has, then their partner needs to be told the simple facts of their behaviour.

It's not necessary to fling any accusations because the actions alone are an issue. It's not about "I don't like your bf", it's about safeguarding children.

OP, you could also channel your rage here, rather than going in all careful about upsetting her, you should let her know how he upset you.

I'd tell your friend that he upset your DD and scared her by going into the toilet with her. If he does have boundary issues or thought he was being helpful, he needs setting straight and told in no uncertain terms that that isn't okay. From your DDs POV, a complete stranger tried to come into the toilet with her to wipe her privates. You're angry a him for putting your DD in that position and he owes you all and apology.

If she cares at all about your friendship, she'll be mortified that he's upset and frightened you and your daughter.

Sure, agree with everything you've said. But to detonate and fly off the deep end during a social occasion wouldn't have been the right thing to do, as she could defuse the situation calmly in an adult way. I agree that having a quiet chat with the friend is the right thing to do.

Surprised anyone hasn't suggested framing the conversation as 'When he did X and Y, I was a little taken aback - some people would find that a bit intrusive' or 'you wouldn't want people to get the wrong idea'... more taking the angle that obviously he is totally innocent, but given his behaviour people might think otherwise / he might give the wrong impression.

That just feels like a less hostile way of landing the same point. It's not that you're accusing him, more warning her that he carries on acting like that someone else might.

I understand completely OP that utter 'what the hell, is this happening, it can't be, surely?!' feeling that meant you didn't instantly drop kick him out the front door.

I think you have to say something, and not something that can be misinterpreted at all.

I'd probably say - f2f - something about did you notice Clive offering to take DD to the loo at the meal, even though she didn't need to go? What did you think? And then I'd tell her that when she was outside on the phone he actually went into the loo when DD was sat on the toilet. That she was scared, and that you had to tell him to get out.

Actually, pedos think they're smarter than everyone else so they DO do that shit in broad daylight.

I can't believe how casual some people are being about this. A bit odd? Kind of weird? It's stone cold horrifying and I'd have gone nuclear on the spot. Fuck the friend, if she's that stupid it's her problem.

Actually yes you're right, some of them do. Anything to get near a child for an opportunity to self-gratify 😫

Really? It didn't occur to you that the OP might have had a good reason for that?

@Whatdoyouthink65 It's hard but if you can actually speak rather than text I think you should tell her what you really think

And you've just met the bloke, he's no 'uncle'

Oh my word. This isn’t “strange” or “weird”. It’s WAY beyond that. He sounds absolutely dangerous. There is no plausible excuse why a man would make the suggestions he did to a child he just met. He’s clearly a paedophile. And don’t dismiss the brownie thing either - it’s a clear sign of grooming behaviour by trying to cast himself in a favourable light to the child.

THIS! I cannot believe some of the casual responses about this being a “bit odd”. It’s downright predatory. I always wondered how on earth someone doesn’t notice their child is being abused - but clearly some parents like this are either blind, gullible or unbelievably stupid

It’s just not normal, so you need to tell her that. But she won’t listen and will soon have a baby with him.

@Whatdoyouthink65 I honestly can’t believe you even need to ask the question on MN. You should be calling social services. This man is clearly a predator - I’m not sure how red the flag needs to be.