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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To answer my friend honestly about her partner

364 replies

Whatdoyouthink65 · 05/02/2024 09:11

Context: My best friend from school and I have fairly infrequent contact now, but are both still available when one or other needs something ( like an opinion or a venting row about something). We don’t see each other much for geographical, familial commitment and conflicting work schedules. My friend has one child from a previous relationship which ended with acrimonious divorce and complex nasty custody battle.
When she met that person I did not like him, told her so nicely ( when she asked for my honest opinion- not unsolicited) and it changed our relationship for a long time. When she got divorced she actually confessed that my concerns about him had been entirely valid and she wished she had listened. I never hold this against her because we’ve all been guilty of being ‘rose tinted’ about partners at some point. After the divorce our relationship returned to how its was pre mariage.

She has a new partner of approximately one year. They appear very happy together and have moved in together- she plans to have another child ( his first bio) soon. He has fully accepted her daughter and has stepped into the ‘ dad’ role fully.

We arranged for us to all meet up recently and she wanted my honest opinion about him. I’m really torn about being honest with her again and potentially ruining our relationship or not acting on my gut and telling her a blasé “ yea he’s nice” answer.

I don’t have issues with everyone at all; in fact I can think of very few other people I don’t like. On the surface there is nothing to dislike about him. He’s polite and as above seemingly makes her feel good/ happy. I just didn’t warm to him initially and always trust my gut , but gave him benefit of doubt ( maybes he’s nervous etc).

However, my toddler took herself to the toilet in our house, then shouted for me when she needed her bum wiping ( as is normal for ourhouse) he got up at the same time as me and I assumed he was going to check on his step daughter who was playing alone in our house at that point. He wasn’t; he opened the toilet door and went to wipe my toddlers bum. Thankfully I was only a step behind him, slid myself between him and her and closed the door, saying that I would do it. My toddler looked terrified at someone she just met an hour earlier being in the bathroom with her ( she’s fairly shy and had barely spoken to him).
it made me REALLY uncomfortable, but I tried to think maybe he was just trying to be helpful although it couldn’t shake being uncomfortable.

later the same day me, my partner, my friend and the new boyfriend went for dinner with their 1 child, our toddler and our 8m old. During dinner our toddler asked her dad to pass some crayons, and the boyfriend seemingly misheard and said “ oh you need the toilet , I’ll take you, come on”. Before I even had chance to interject my partner had immediately said no and passed her the crayons she had actually asked for.

the boyfriend also undermined us several times ( for health reasons we don’t allow our toddler commercial desserts because we can’t measure the sugar in them) their daughter was having a dessert and we had said our toddler could have fruit ( she’s normally very happy with this), she had a bit of envy and asked why she couldn’t have chocolate brownies too and I explained it, she accepted it and then immediately after, the boyfriend said “ don’t listen to mummy uncle will buy you a brownie”. Again we stopped this, but there was a few incidents throughout the day of this nature.

I have real concerns as to his safety around small girls although I have nothing more than my opinion/ feelings to present to my friend.

my friend has text asking “ what do you think?”
would it be unreasonable based on the described incident above to answer her honestly saying that I have some concerns or should I give a safe answer of “ yeah he seems nice”.

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 05/02/2024 10:22

The red flags for me here are not just with his behaviour, but also with your friend. She makes poor choices, and I would never risk leaving my child with her.

LegallyBrunette01 · 05/02/2024 10:23

Another poster here who is getting creepy weirdo vibes. None of what you have told us about him is normal behaviour.

Actively wanting to go and clean a child they just met on the toilet whilst the parent is right there - weird and screams predator

Actively offering to take a child they just met to the toilet, when the parents are right there

I don't like the brownie and uncle comment - this is a grooming tactic, I'm afraid to say, he JUST met you all. Please please please don't brush away these comments as "he is just trying to get used to the "father" role" - this is the type of justifying people do when they are trying to be nice.

Predators unfortunately target single mothers, your friend needs to be hyper-vigilant about this man, especially as he has now moved in with her. You have to say something to her for the sake of her young child.

ZephrineDrouhin · 05/02/2024 10:26

I can't imagine what sane man would bustle off to wipe a little girl's bottom whom he'd just met especially when her mother was present. They wouldn't be rushing to take a small child to the loo either. This would deeply concern me because it is so outside normal behaviour. I'm not in the UK but isn't there something you can check about men who've been abusive in previous relationships. I think my conscience about her poor daughter would make me tell her what had happened even if it ended the friendship. Have you goggled his name?

user1492757084 · 05/02/2024 10:27

Say you found those particular things odd.
She hopefully will be alert and pay more attention to how BF is around children and whether he is inappropriate.

LegallyBrunette01 · 05/02/2024 10:29

And even if she does do a Sarah's Law check and it comes back clear, all it means is that the person hasn't been caught and put on the list, so I wouldn't fully trust it. His behaviour is not normal, my DH wouldn't even think of offering to take his own nephews to the toilet if their parents were right there, let alone a child he just met. That's how far from normal his response and attitude is.

susiedaisy1912 · 05/02/2024 10:29

What your dh view about the mishearing crayon situation op?

Whatdoyouthink65 · 05/02/2024 10:42

My DH immediately shut him down on it. We had a little bit more strained/ forced conversation then made our excuses and left. My DH met us there so I hadn’t had chance to express my concerns from earlier to him yet. When we got into the car park he said “
do you think ( insert friends name) knows she’s dating a n o n c e. “

my dh is normally very intuitive about people being “ good/ bad” but definitely doesn’t win prizes in the tact department!

OP posts:
Headstarttohappiness · 05/02/2024 10:46

This is a safeguarding issue. Major red flags here as PPs have identified.
I would be speaking in person to friend and expecting the relationship to go cold!

Is her child at nursery/childminder? I would also be letting them know of these concerns (maybe add in your DH here too?)

Please take your concerns seriously.
As safeguarders we are taught to ‘think the unthinkable’. Understandably find it difficult to do so; it does help prevent/uncover abuse.
Many of the things he was doing were red flag on their own. Taken together it’s a pattern I would not be able to ignore.
Sending you courage and strength OP.

Headstarttohappiness · 05/02/2024 10:47

Just seen your post - I like the sound of your DH!

PlantDoctor · 05/02/2024 10:50

Tried to help your child twice with toileting? Hell no.

Whatdoyouthink65 · 05/02/2024 10:51

I have tried to be really objective and see it a different way, but I just can’t.

My best friend from adulthood whom I see several times a week and I sometimes share childcare because we’re shift workers and wraparound care is a bit rubbish in our area. Anyway her partner is lovely and totally normal. He is often present when my BF has been minding my DD. However he has never taken her to the toilet because he finds it inappropriate. I’m sure in an absolute pinch/ emergency he would if required but he definitely doesn’t offer or assume it’s accepted. So even after reflection of am I being gender biased/ bigoted or having unfair expectations, I just can’t see it any other way than predatory.

I do try to reflect on things, and view them from other perspectives, have I misinterpreted something etc. The undermining thing alone I would find irritating but not necessarily a huge Red Flag, but in combination I just can’t stop thinking he is a predator.

although I don’t want to, I have decided I need to put my big girl pants on and have a very difficult conversation with my friend about this.

As other posters have said my friendship has already changed irrevocably because I won’t ever allow my own children around him again ( because even if I’m wrong I act on my instincts to keep my children safe) and at some point this will become obvious. I need to speak to her to help safeguard her child.

thanks everyone for your opinions / advice. Reassuring to know I’m not overreacting and this behaviour is definitely not normal.

OP posts:
SallyWD · 05/02/2024 10:58

I agree with with others. Very strange behaviour from this man. Who in their right mind offers to wipe a child's bum unless they have a very close relationship with this child. I mean perhaps it's innocent. Perhaps he's been helping out with your friend's daughter's toileting and was trying to be helpful but still. I wouldn't take the risk if having him involved with my child.
I think you have to mention it, in a very matter of fact way. I'm sure your friend will be upset and defensive but I think it will plant the seed of doubt in her mind. She'll start watching him more closely and pick up on anything that's not quite right.

LakeTiticaca · 05/02/2024 10:58

The toilet thing did it for me I'm afraid. Even my husband of 30 years doesn't take our 4 year old granddaughter to the toilet, I always do it . I would be very suspicious of a very recent boyfriend being so enthusiastic about taking a non related toddler to the bathroom.. and I would be telling my friend straight

Rockschooldropout · 05/02/2024 11:01

You are doing the right thing OP - as you say , you won’t be allowing your own children around him now anyway and rightly so.
He is a huge walking red flag , it is wholly inappropriate for a stranger to your child .. and you because that what he is at this point , to be so keenly jumping up to want to go and wipe a toddlers bum .. and then again mishearing “allegedly ” a child ask for the toilet when it was in fact crayons .. no normal person does that ..
Aside from being a nurse years ago I worked in schools and my local pre school and still work with children and young adults today .. I will tell you that the only time I’ve ever assisted anyone’s child to the toilet was when I was working in the pre school..
predators can and do operate in plain sight as an upfrontness in their eyes makes them appear less suspicious.. however abusers do home in on lone mothers and it sounds like she does not have the ability to make appropriate relationship choices .

I would not be silent in your shoes , prepare to be cut off by her but yes she needs to know that her partner may not be very wholesome sadly ..
how old is her dd ?

steppemum · 05/02/2024 11:02

well, I feel for you, because she will throw it back at you, but I think you MUST say something for the sake of her little girl.

I would write a longer letter. Start with - last time you asked me this you got upset when I told you the truth, so it has been really hard to me to decide what to do now. I don't want to lose your friendship, but for your daughter's sake I have to speak. Please don't shoot the messenger.

then lay it out really clearly. Don;t be 'nice' about it, be very clear and blunt. Say that if she stays with him, you would be very careful that your dd was never alone with him, that is how badly he tweaked your radar.

CheeseSandwichRiskAssessment · 05/02/2024 11:06

Even if he was a woman that would all be massively inappropriate behaviour, it's just not the done thing.

Agree with everyone to tell her face to face not text, and yes my daughter would never see him ever again.

ViscousFluidFlow · 05/02/2024 11:12

The undermining thing is a red flag it makes a perceived funny little closeness between a predator and a child to the exclusion of the parent.

Be very direct with your friend.

I completely disagree with being wishy washy about this and speaking in a manner that means she can make her own decision on watered down information. Plus obviously a Sarah Law search just means he hasn’t been caught. Listen to your DH. Women wanting to be nice about everything is one of the reasons women suffer. Men are often really blunt because they don’t worry about being liked.

I feel very strongly about this having supported people who were abused as children. These individuals had lifelong MH issues because of what happened to them as children. Keep your child away completely and tell your friend why, warn her. But remember some women will stay with convicted sex offenders.

MarnieMarnie · 05/02/2024 11:12

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

diddl · 05/02/2024 11:14

If she didn't see anything odd with him offering to take your daughter to the loo I fear for her daughter.

LauderSyme · 05/02/2024 11:15

No paedophile is this fucking clueless about how to groom parents in order to gain access to their kids.

If predators were this clumsily obvious, we wouldn't have an epidemic of child sexual abuse.

Or then again maybe in OP's world, we would. Because apparently preserving a friendship might be more valuable than protecting a child from a paedophile. OP isn't sure though, which is why she is asking us.

Confused
NewYearNewCalendar · 05/02/2024 11:22

although I don’t want to, I have decided I need to put my big girl pants on and have a very difficult conversation with my friend about this.
As other posters have said my friendship has already changed irrevocably because I won’t ever allow my own children around him again ( because even if I’m wrong I act on my instincts to keep my children safe) and at some point this will become obvious. I need to speak to her to help safeguard her child.

Absolutely OP. I think you’ve known this from the start, but it’s helpful to use this forum to think out loud.

I agree that having the conversation in person might help to actually get her to listen, though it’ll be very difficult.

If your bottom line is that you aren’t going to let him see your child - hopefully that’ll be enough of a stand to make her actually think about it properly.

Toooldforthis36 · 05/02/2024 11:23

your DH is on the money here, just reading this gives me bad vibes.

Barrenfieldoffucks · 05/02/2024 11:26

I may say " apart from being a little too keen to take our kids to the toilet he seems nice enough"

Whatdoyouthink65 · 05/02/2024 11:28

@LauderSyme

I think this is uncalled for. I was trying to gain other perspectives to ensure I’m not being completely unfair to someone who perhaps may have just been viewing himself as helpful.

I have standards that I set for my children that are very different than I see other people set for theirs, which is fine because people are entitled to parent/ discipline how they see fit within the bounds of the law.

My kids don’t have contact with very many adults and certainly non that I don’t know, because I work the opposite shifts to my DH and for the odd hour or so we clash either my mum or BF mind them for us. That’s it - they don’t go to nursery/ pre school etc.

I was merely trying to gain objective perspective from others to ensure my concerns were valid before I approach someone and potentially call her partner a potential peadophile/ child abuser. These accusations can have far and wide reaching effects and if everyone else saw this behaviour as ‘ acceptable’ and saw me as a ‘ neurotic parent’ then I would have to reconsider.

If someone else had written this post I would see Red flags all over it, but I do find it harder to be objective when things involve my own children as ( unsurprisingly) I love them immensely and just want to keep them safe above everything else.

I actually work in a regulated health profession, and have seen absolutely horrific things happen to adults and children alike. I’ve also had a formal complaint because I safeguarded a lady against DV without consent- the complaint was not upheld and sadly she was murdered by her partner the very same year and i attended that incident by too by unfortunate chance.

gaining perspective and being ensuring I’m being objective does not in anyway make me complicit or condone the behaviour.

OP posts:
CactusMactus · 05/02/2024 11:33

Maybe spend a bit more time with them to get a clearer picture?