To answer my friend honestly about her partner

[Whatdoyouthink65]

Context: My best friend from school and I have fairly infrequent contact now, but are both still available when one or other needs something ( like an opinion or a venting row about something). We don’t see each other much for geographical, familial commitment and conflicting work schedules. My friend has one child from a previous relationship which ended with acrimonious divorce and complex nasty custody battle.
When she met that person I did not like him, told her so nicely ( when she asked for my honest opinion- not unsolicited) and it changed our relationship for a long time. When she got divorced she actually confessed that my concerns about him had been entirely valid and she wished she had listened. I never hold this against her because we’ve all been guilty of being ‘rose tinted’ about partners at some point. After the divorce our relationship returned to how its was pre mariage.

She has a new partner of approximately one year. They appear very happy together and have moved in together- she plans to have another child ( his first bio) soon. He has fully accepted her daughter and has stepped into the ‘ dad’ role fully.

We arranged for us to all meet up recently and she wanted my honest opinion about him. I’m really torn about being honest with her again and potentially ruining our relationship or not acting on my gut and telling her a blasé “ yea he’s nice” answer.

I don’t have issues with everyone at all; in fact I can think of very few other people I don’t like. On the surface there is nothing to dislike about him. He’s polite and as above seemingly makes her feel good/ happy. I just didn’t warm to him initially and always trust my gut , but gave him benefit of doubt ( maybes he’s nervous etc).

However, my toddler took herself to the toilet in our house, then shouted for me when she needed her bum wiping ( as is normal for ourhouse) he got up at the same time as me and I assumed he was going to check on his step daughter who was playing alone in our house at that point. He wasn’t; he opened the toilet door and went to wipe my toddlers bum. Thankfully I was only a step behind him, slid myself between him and her and closed the door, saying that I would do it. My toddler looked terrified at someone she just met an hour earlier being in the bathroom with her ( she’s fairly shy and had barely spoken to him).
it made me REALLY uncomfortable, but I tried to think maybe he was just trying to be helpful although it couldn’t shake being uncomfortable.

later the same day me, my partner, my friend and the new boyfriend went for dinner with their 1 child, our toddler and our 8m old. During dinner our toddler asked her dad to pass some crayons, and the boyfriend seemingly misheard and said “ oh you need the toilet , I’ll take you, come on”. Before I even had chance to interject my partner had immediately said no and passed her the crayons she had actually asked for.

the boyfriend also undermined us several times ( for health reasons we don’t allow our toddler commercial desserts because we can’t measure the sugar in them) their daughter was having a dessert and we had said our toddler could have fruit ( she’s normally very happy with this), she had a bit of envy and asked why she couldn’t have chocolate brownies too and I explained it, she accepted it and then immediately after, the boyfriend said “ don’t listen to mummy uncle will buy you a brownie”. Again we stopped this, but there was a few incidents throughout the day of this nature.

I have real concerns as to his safety around small girls although I have nothing more than my opinion/ feelings to present to my friend.

my friend has text asking “ what do you think?”
would it be unreasonable based on the described incident above to answer her honestly saying that I have some concerns or should I give a safe answer of “ yeah he seems nice”.

I would also mention to your friend that your BF got the same worrying vibes about this man too.

@CactusMactus

Id love to be a fly on the wall in their house. Unfortunately they live 200 miles away from us so we only see them on “ high days and holidays” so to speak.

I also would only be comfortable spending time with them without my children, because even if I’m wrong I won’t put my own 2 year old in such an uncomfortable position again. There is no feasible way to do this either with childcare for my kids or without raising suspicion with them.

My mind is made up. I’m going to have to speak to her and just say that although he clearly makes her very happy - he makes me and my kids and my DH very uncomfortable and that we won’t be spending time with him with our children around in future. It’s going to be an awkward and uncomfortable conversation because it’s implying exactly what we mean without actually outright accusing him of being a nonce.

He clearly has a problem with recognising, yet still managing to go rampaging across people's boundaries and this would put me off as well. In your shoes I would be honest with the friend.

If you have concerns that he is unsafe around children then it's absolutely your responsibility to say something to your friend and also to the police. You can't not.

He sounds like a creep. You have to tell you friend but she will likely cut you off as a result...I would do Sarah's law check, just in case.

@Rockschooldropout her DD will be 4 imminently and is already trauma effected by the DV relationship she was born into. The whole situation is terribly sad and scary. My friend is also not stupid in all aspects of life she actually has a responsible professional, regulated job which she is very good at and nationally recognised for. I think this makes it even more frustrating.

I'd be telling her that his apparent want to be taking both yours and her young child to the bathroom is inappropriate and to notice how much time he spends with her/watching her. How often he offers to look after her if she needs to go out. Be direct you may just save this little girl from a whole other life.

No one wants to think that anyone is other than nice or caring and too often we are told that we are over reacting but once you see you cannot un see and I would be very clear about what you feel.

I would be fine with losing a friendship if it meant I had spoken up and planted enough seeds for her to look out or even better get rid.

I think you're absolutely right OP, and while it will be scary to voice it to your friend, when it comes to young children's safety, it has to be done.

Those are very clear red flags and I would be horrified if somebody acted that way with my children. I also like to think I would call them out on it immediately and kick up a fuss (avout the volunteering for wiping in the toilet situation) but I appreciate it's hard to know how you'll react or should react when caught off guard.

Also, unfortunately, often vulnerable single mums (who have been in abusive relationships previously) are targeted to enable access to their children. I would speak up, acknowledge that it'll be hard for her to hear, and be prepared to leave the friendship behind if she takes his side and isn't prepared to accept it. You have to do what's right for your friend's child and possible future children.

There's a difference between not liking a friends partner because they're a bit of a twat and suspecting their partner of being a child abuser. Because, let's cut to the chase, that's your fear (and would be mine too as the toilet thing is extremely suspicious.) I'd message saying 'can we talk?' Then arrange a conversation where you describe what he did both times involving your DD and the toilet (in case she was unaware) and tell her you wanted her to know because it's really unusual for an unknown man to involve himself in toileting a child when their parents are around to do it. No need to accuse, just present the facts. Also, leave out the minor stuff about desserts and treats, as if you throw everything at it, the key serious concern could get lost. I think it may cost you your friendship, but sometimes you can't stay silent. Can you?

You're going to lose a friendship again OP, but that's a cost worth paying IMO.
When you speak to her I wouldn't mention the 'Uncle' or the undermining over the dessert. I didn't get that your DC is diabetic from your first post, but whatever, that situation is an easy one for your friend to disregard.

For comparison we have done childcare for our daughter's baby girl and from the very outset I had a conversation with her about nappy changing and bathing, if bathing was required, and how comfortable she was with her Dad being involved, or not, completely her choice. All this when we'd be in sole charge of her, not when her parents were present.

Some will think that's over cautious, but when babies and children are concerned, their welfare and comfort and the parents' confidence are paramount.

The PP above who used the phrase 'intimate care' put it well. Not sensational, but clear. It will be hard for her to dispute what you say, she won't like to consider it, but even if you break contact, she'll have that to think about.

Edited to add this from
@5128gap
both times involving your DD and the toilet (in case she was unaware) and tell her you wanted her to know because it's really unusual for an unknown man to involve himself in toileting a child when their parents are around to do it.

Or, as per mine and others comments, a known man, when their parent is there.

You would think a new introduction would be being especially careful to protect themself from possible accusations iyswim? My DH is fairly careful about what situations he puts himself in even when helping someone out. Not because he's overly cautious but he believes in boundaries and in people being confident and safe.

Someone who is so quick to overstep perfectly normal and necessary boundaries and undermine parental authority, and so quickly when he's unknown to you, is not filling anyone on this thread with confidence.

Please please trust your instincts and say something!

When I was in school my mum started seeing a man who gave me similarly strange vibes, they weren't together that long and he never crossed a line with me but he definitely had not quite normal behaviour and I just had that feeling that something was a bit off but just thought I was being overly sensitive and never said anything to my mum, and didn't really think about it after they broke up... fast forward about 10 years and my friend was telling me about her best friend being in court giving evidence against her step dad who she'd suffered years of really horrific sexual abuse from, and it was the same man!! I couldn't believe it and always wished that I'd at least mentioned my concerns to my mum, even if nothing came of it at least I would have known I'd not just turned a blind eye to the obviously not normal behaviour.

I know this is an extreme example but if your intuition was right and you had put your friendship over the potential safety of a child I think you would always regret it. If she chooses to ignore your feelings then at least you tried

OP I appreciate how difficult this must be.

You seem to have decided that you are going to talk to your friend, and I agree this is the right course of action. The fact that she has a small daughter herself is enough of a reason to flag what you've noticed. Your friend has asked a very direct question, knowing you were truthful and insightful last time so hopefully she has asked this question expecting a possible unpleasant conversation off the back of it. Maybe she has her own concerns and is looking for validation/confirmation? If she's come from a DV situation in the past, she may not trust her own judgement and thinks she is seeing red flags where there aren't any.
Clearly you've spotted these too and I think being open and honest with her is the kindest thing you can do.

I'd also express to her that you value your friendship, always have, and always will. Tell her that you want to continue your friendship with her and hope that she feels the same way.

Jesus Christ!

Not one single man I know would get up and go into wipe my child's bum when they shouted on me.

WTAF!!!!

This is insane.

I can't believe you're even questioning this. Yes, you tell her exactly that.

What she does with it is up to her.

Why did you just slide between him
And the door and say you'd do it? Why didn't you say "what the hell are you doing?"

I would be completely honest with her. She might not listen but if god forbid something happens to her child further down the line you won't be cutting yourself up wishing you had pointed out these red flags.

She didn't listen before but she learned her lesson from that and admitted that she should have listened to you. I would take the risk of losing your friendship to protect that child and to at least attempt to protect your friend. Don't do it over text though. I'd meet up and have a chat to her.

I fell out with my mum years ago after I got engaged to a guy and she told me bluntly that she thought I was making the biggest mistake of my life. She was right and thankfully I realised that before I married him. I'm now married to a wonderful man and was so relieved when my mum said she thought he was great and was happy for me. Had I met someone and she said she didn't like him or had concerns I definitely would have listened and would probably have ended it.

Oh and the uncle comment! Ick! He's just met the kid and he's referring to himself as uncle. He's far too over familiar. Big red flags.

Yes - I wouldn’t let this go. This was totally inappropriate. And yes, I can’t imagine a woman doing it, other than a very involved grandmother.

The messenger always gets shot, so don't expect this conversation to go well, however you approach it. However, in your shoes, yes, I would say something. The toilet thing is a massive red flag. Who instantly jumps up to wipe a stranger's child? I probably wouldn't be goaded into saying whether you like him or not, I would approach it in terms of his behaviour, and be very clear about it. 'I didn't like it when your boyfriend assumed it was his place to wipe my little girl and when he kept trying to accompany her to the toilet. It was completely inappropriate.' Really, your friendship has pretty much ended as long as she stays with this man, hasn't it? As you'll never feel safe having him around your children.

I think the PP who mentions grooming behaviours was bang on! Offering to buy brownie against parents wishes and asking to call him ‘uncle’ 🤢

just on the toilet wiping thing.

If I walked past the loo and a toddler called out for me to wipe their bum, I would say - hold on I'll get Mummy. There is no way I would walk in and wipe. that applies to my best friends kids, my nieces and nephews etc.

If I was in sole charge, of the toddler, I might even hand them the paper and encourage them to wipe themselves rather than wipe.

It is just so red flag, so 'no go' it is the weirdest thing that he stood up and went to the toddler that he doesn't know to do intimate care when mum was there. He doesn't even have the excuse that he was walking past and they called out.

@ohididntrealise I was too shocked in that moment to really comprehend it. I also prioritised comforting my daughter- and I was holding a baby at the time. Our downstairs loo is very tiny ( under the stairs) and I did say something along the lines or “ this isnt anything to do with you” or words to that effect but it all
happened very fast and I don’t remember the specific words because I was reeling inside and trying to portray calm for my toddler!

yes with hindsight I wish I’d yelled in his face “get the f*ck out you pervert” or whatever but in the few seconds this exchange took I think I was a bit rabbit in the headlight wtf is happening, not really thinking just physically protecting my kids!

if anything like this happened again I would be much more aggressive with it for sure but I was floored by it and that’s my issue to own and improve on I agree

I'd just say that you liked him but just want comfortable with him offering to take your daughter to the toilet.

Another thought - be prepared for her to deflect with something along the lines of "well, he's been stepping up to parent my DD, so might have thought he was being helpful".

Utter nonsense, of course, but if she got blinders on, could deflect this way.

Yes, my first thought was that he's already acting this way with her daughter otherwise she also would have found it strange.

If you lived nearer I'd say you could do more good by playing your cards close to your chest and just commenting every time he did something inappropriate and sowing the seed for her to realise herself. As you don't have the opportunity to do that, you need to say something directly. If you knew any of her family as well I'd be sounding them out.

@Whatdoyouthink65

I understand. I didn't mean to come across accusatory.

I understand you were shocked and in the heat of the moment I probably would have acted the same as you.

But yes, it is strange, strange behaviour.

no. please do not say this.

This gives such mixed messages. On what planet can you say you like him?

Dozens of people on here have said his behaviour was out of line. But friend is in love with him.
So to get the message across you have to be simple and clear.
don't use phrases like 'not comfortable'
Use phrases that have been used on here.

be clear - he jumped up to wipe my daughters bum. As a stranger he tried to go into the loo ahead of me to wipe a little girls bum. It was weird, it was inappropriate and it raised a huge red flag in terms of his behaviour around children.
He then did it again at the restaurant - offering to take her to the loo when she hadn't asked.
And he was quietly but consistantly undermining us - call him uncle, nice uncle will buy a brownie etc etc, which was also weird and smacked of groomer vibes.

But based on the 2 toilet incidents, you will not be able to meet her with him present unless your kids aren't there.