To answer my friend honestly about her partner

[Whatdoyouthink65]

Context: My best friend from school and I have fairly infrequent contact now, but are both still available when one or other needs something ( like an opinion or a venting row about something). We don’t see each other much for geographical, familial commitment and conflicting work schedules. My friend has one child from a previous relationship which ended with acrimonious divorce and complex nasty custody battle.
When she met that person I did not like him, told her so nicely ( when she asked for my honest opinion- not unsolicited) and it changed our relationship for a long time. When she got divorced she actually confessed that my concerns about him had been entirely valid and she wished she had listened. I never hold this against her because we’ve all been guilty of being ‘rose tinted’ about partners at some point. After the divorce our relationship returned to how its was pre mariage.

She has a new partner of approximately one year. They appear very happy together and have moved in together- she plans to have another child ( his first bio) soon. He has fully accepted her daughter and has stepped into the ‘ dad’ role fully.

We arranged for us to all meet up recently and she wanted my honest opinion about him. I’m really torn about being honest with her again and potentially ruining our relationship or not acting on my gut and telling her a blasé “ yea he’s nice” answer.

I don’t have issues with everyone at all; in fact I can think of very few other people I don’t like. On the surface there is nothing to dislike about him. He’s polite and as above seemingly makes her feel good/ happy. I just didn’t warm to him initially and always trust my gut , but gave him benefit of doubt ( maybes he’s nervous etc).

However, my toddler took herself to the toilet in our house, then shouted for me when she needed her bum wiping ( as is normal for ourhouse) he got up at the same time as me and I assumed he was going to check on his step daughter who was playing alone in our house at that point. He wasn’t; he opened the toilet door and went to wipe my toddlers bum. Thankfully I was only a step behind him, slid myself between him and her and closed the door, saying that I would do it. My toddler looked terrified at someone she just met an hour earlier being in the bathroom with her ( she’s fairly shy and had barely spoken to him).
it made me REALLY uncomfortable, but I tried to think maybe he was just trying to be helpful although it couldn’t shake being uncomfortable.

later the same day me, my partner, my friend and the new boyfriend went for dinner with their 1 child, our toddler and our 8m old. During dinner our toddler asked her dad to pass some crayons, and the boyfriend seemingly misheard and said “ oh you need the toilet , I’ll take you, come on”. Before I even had chance to interject my partner had immediately said no and passed her the crayons she had actually asked for.

the boyfriend also undermined us several times ( for health reasons we don’t allow our toddler commercial desserts because we can’t measure the sugar in them) their daughter was having a dessert and we had said our toddler could have fruit ( she’s normally very happy with this), she had a bit of envy and asked why she couldn’t have chocolate brownies too and I explained it, she accepted it and then immediately after, the boyfriend said “ don’t listen to mummy uncle will buy you a brownie”. Again we stopped this, but there was a few incidents throughout the day of this nature.

I have real concerns as to his safety around small girls although I have nothing more than my opinion/ feelings to present to my friend.

my friend has text asking “ what do you think?”
would it be unreasonable based on the described incident above to answer her honestly saying that I have some concerns or should I give a safe answer of “ yeah he seems nice”.

Honestly, I would have pulled him up on it the first time he followed her to the toilet. It might have meant that we all had to leave at that point but I would definitely have said why did you go to the toilet to wipe my child's bottom? Do you think that's appropriate?

I think if instead of directly replying, you ask her to meet for coffee she's more likely to mentally prepared herself for a difficult conversation and it may set the ball in motion for her to be thinking about what you may have noticed.

I would mention the toilet thing. I would also see him referring to himself as uncle as another red flag as it's pushing a degree of familiarity that he hasn't earned and likely to be confusing to your daughter. The brownie thing I'd be less concerned about. I'd probably file both away though and not mention anything other than the toilet.

The toilet business is IMO beyond weird, and iffy.

I know my dh (we have 2 dds) would never have dreamt of doing such a thing with anyone else’s child - though he’d have done it if asked because of some emergency or necessity.

The do not listen to Mummy and I’m so special over the chocolate brownie is honestly the sort of grooming predators do in plain sight to try and make a bond.

People that have zero experience thankfully or who have not been involved in a professional or voluntary capacity with child abuse will maybe think it’s an over reaction. It really is not.

Yes those were my concerns. Personally I wouldn’t dream of taking someone else’s child to the toilet, except my best friends son -but that’s because we are shift workers and help each other with childcare so it is a necessity. We don’t do it if we’re both present because there is no need.

Your instincts were right about her last partner and what you've said here raises massive red flags. He sounds creepy and dangerous and I would tell her this. How he behaved with your child is not normal, he's trying to hide in plain sight, do not let him get away with it.

Holy shit, you have got to tell your friend your concerns. I can't belive some posters on here are advising you not to! Trust your gut, this guy's behaviour around toddler toileting is very far from normal and is a huge red flag. Your friend needs to get away from this man to protect her daughter! I hope she will listen to you, but even if she doesn't how would you be able to live with yourself if you didn't even try to warn her?

I think you need to tell her the toilet incident. Just in a matter-of-fact, this is what happened way. Present the information neutrally and don't be tempted to emphasise your opinion or judgment about him as a person. She needs to be in possession of the facts but ultimately only she can make her decision. Don't bring up the brownie thing.

I agree the toilet incidents sound strange at best and potentially dangerous at worst, so it's too important not to tread carefully. I would present it as "this thing happened - what do you think?" rather than barrelling in with "I have a bad feeling about him".

Listen to your gut, he could be grooming your friend to get to her child, child abusers are canny and take their time to build trust. Was your friend particularly vulnerable when she met him?

I would say something like ‘he seemed nice but quite full on isn’t he?’ And when she asks what you mean I’d say ‘you know, calling himself ‘uncle’, trying to deal with DD in the loo - just very hands on for the first meeting - he’s obviously keen to impress - it was just a lot’

She’ll get upset etc but you can’t avoid that.

The reality is she won’t listen, she’ll blame you for colouring her view of him but you can hope that she might keep an eye out.

I have a friend who works in child protection and she says the number of predators who target single mothers is terrifying.

Speak as you find op, don't water yourself down to keep your friend happy. His behaviour was odd and shows that at the very least he lacks boundaries and at the very worst he is a predator. I've been sat here trying to think of all our family and friends who knew us when our children were little and there isn't a single other person apart from my children's grandmother who would have jumped up to offer to wipe their bums.

Yes!

Just left a DV / coercive control relationship. My friend has also always been someone who needs to be in a relationship, even if it’s a terrible toxic one.

the more I unpick this the more sure I am I have to tell her my concerns at any cost to our relationship if only to protect her daughter

His behaviour was decidedly odd, I can't think that even a poedophile would 'out' himself like that on a first meeting it sounds so bizaarre!
You could ask her to slow down the moving him in and ask why it all has to be so fast, or at least hint at that.
You could ask if she has done any police background checks on him, as she has a child.

This has red flags all over it!

It is NOT normal for a man to attend to the toileting needs of a toddler when (a) the man is entirely unknown to the toddler and (b) the mother is right there!

It is NOT normal for a man to describe himself as 'uncle' to a toddler when he is (a) not an uncle and (b) the child has known him for five minutes!

Finally, it is worth bearing in mind that some paedophiles deliberately seek relationships with single mothers with young children for obvious reasons. Obviously the majority of men in relationships with single mothers are perfectly nice and normal but you do have to be a bit more vigilant about guys who do enter into these sorts of relationships. You can't afford to be naïve.

Personally, I have serious concerns about this man and you really need to say something.

This is very true - I was one of a whole rabble of cousins and siblings. No one other than aunt or grandmother would attend to us in the loo.

later the same day me, my partner, my friend and the new boyfriend went for dinner with their 1 child, our toddler and our 8m old. During dinner our toddler asked her dad to pass some crayons, and the boyfriend seemingly misheard and said “ oh you need the toilet , I’ll take you, come on”. Before I even had chance to interject my partner had immediately said no and passed her the crayons she had actually asked for.

Sorry meant to add this is also just so inappropriate.

Also, ask yourself, what sort of person actively wants to help a toddler on the toilet when that toddler is not theirs?

I help my toddler on the toilet because she is two. I do it gladly because she is my child but I will be very glad when my services are no longer required! I certainly don't volunteer to help other toddlers when their parents are there!

Tell her, what she chooses to do with the information is up to her but you've planted the seed.

I wish that society as a whole were better informed on signs to look for and how a lot of these men operate.

I’m really surprised by ppl advising you to keep quiet bc she didn’t like the assessment of her previous partner who you turned out to be right about.

I understand your hesitancy bc she didn’t like your response and your friendship was affected until she saw reality and admitted that you were right.

What would you rather - tell her you like him and always feel uneasy with him around your own chdn and wondering how he is with your friend’s daughter and new child when he is alone with them - or risk her getting upset?

If you found out years down the line he was abusing your friends daughter how would you feel? Better than if you’d said nothing and hadn’t risked upsetting her?

Shes acknowledged your intuition was previously right and expressed regrets at not listening to you. She may be asking now bc she’s certain she’s found the right one who is beyond reproach and wants you to confirm this for her or she doesn’t trust her own judgment and is genuinely asking for your help to avoid a similar mistake to last time. I tend to think it’s more likely the former but you need to ask her if she really wants your honest opinion of him.

You need to follow your conscience OP. It’s not worth the risk. Isn’t there a phone line you can use to find out if someone has previous convictions for domestic and child abuse? I’d look into that if I was you first. But I’d definitely tell your friend how uncomfortable you and your partner - and your daughter - were at his strange actions, and tell her they were strange - not normal, especially for a complete stranger (and male)!

The only question is why he would think it’s socially acceptable behaviour? Does he come from a massive family with loads of kids? Does he have daughters so he’s used to doing this? - still unacceptable when it’s someone you don’t know very well’s kids!

You may lose your friendship over this but surely protecting children from the threat of a predator is the only option?

It’s obviously a very awkward situation for you, OP, good luck

I get sinister vibes from his behaviour OP. It’s like he was trying to normalise himself being alone with your daughter whilst she was undressed. The uncle and chocolate brownie comment makes me feel uncomfortable in light of that, it feels manipulative, almost like some sort of early grooming attempt. I’m not sure how to phrase it but I would say something to your friend, but expect the friendship to cool again.

Any adult has a duty to report where child safeguarding issues arise.

There are huge red flags here - the offer to wipe a strangers child’s bum is not just inappropriate it’s absolutely dangerous behaviour.

If your friend won’t listen then I’d report him to the relevant authorities in your country.

The most important issue here is not your friends feelings but her child’s safety.

I would be straight with your friend and say it's not normal for a man to try twice to be alone with a child he's just met when she will not be fully dressed.

I think your relationship with her will change anyway for as long as this man is in her life - whether or not you tell her, you will be on high alert every time he is around your child and your behaviour towards them will change because you will be uncomfortable. She would eventually notice. That being the case, I would tell her.

If you are in the UK, anyone can check if a person has a previous conviction using Sarah's Law.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/find-out-if-a-person-has-a-record-for-child-sexual-offences