To answer my friend honestly about her partner

[Whatdoyouthink65]

Context: My best friend from school and I have fairly infrequent contact now, but are both still available when one or other needs something ( like an opinion or a venting row about something). We don’t see each other much for geographical, familial commitment and conflicting work schedules. My friend has one child from a previous relationship which ended with acrimonious divorce and complex nasty custody battle.
When she met that person I did not like him, told her so nicely ( when she asked for my honest opinion- not unsolicited) and it changed our relationship for a long time. When she got divorced she actually confessed that my concerns about him had been entirely valid and she wished she had listened. I never hold this against her because we’ve all been guilty of being ‘rose tinted’ about partners at some point. After the divorce our relationship returned to how its was pre mariage.

She has a new partner of approximately one year. They appear very happy together and have moved in together- she plans to have another child ( his first bio) soon. He has fully accepted her daughter and has stepped into the ‘ dad’ role fully.

We arranged for us to all meet up recently and she wanted my honest opinion about him. I’m really torn about being honest with her again and potentially ruining our relationship or not acting on my gut and telling her a blasé “ yea he’s nice” answer.

I don’t have issues with everyone at all; in fact I can think of very few other people I don’t like. On the surface there is nothing to dislike about him. He’s polite and as above seemingly makes her feel good/ happy. I just didn’t warm to him initially and always trust my gut , but gave him benefit of doubt ( maybes he’s nervous etc).

However, my toddler took herself to the toilet in our house, then shouted for me when she needed her bum wiping ( as is normal for ourhouse) he got up at the same time as me and I assumed he was going to check on his step daughter who was playing alone in our house at that point. He wasn’t; he opened the toilet door and went to wipe my toddlers bum. Thankfully I was only a step behind him, slid myself between him and her and closed the door, saying that I would do it. My toddler looked terrified at someone she just met an hour earlier being in the bathroom with her ( she’s fairly shy and had barely spoken to him).
it made me REALLY uncomfortable, but I tried to think maybe he was just trying to be helpful although it couldn’t shake being uncomfortable.

later the same day me, my partner, my friend and the new boyfriend went for dinner with their 1 child, our toddler and our 8m old. During dinner our toddler asked her dad to pass some crayons, and the boyfriend seemingly misheard and said “ oh you need the toilet , I’ll take you, come on”. Before I even had chance to interject my partner had immediately said no and passed her the crayons she had actually asked for.

the boyfriend also undermined us several times ( for health reasons we don’t allow our toddler commercial desserts because we can’t measure the sugar in them) their daughter was having a dessert and we had said our toddler could have fruit ( she’s normally very happy with this), she had a bit of envy and asked why she couldn’t have chocolate brownies too and I explained it, she accepted it and then immediately after, the boyfriend said “ don’t listen to mummy uncle will buy you a brownie”. Again we stopped this, but there was a few incidents throughout the day of this nature.

I have real concerns as to his safety around small girls although I have nothing more than my opinion/ feelings to present to my friend.

my friend has text asking “ what do you think?”
would it be unreasonable based on the described incident above to answer her honestly saying that I have some concerns or should I give a safe answer of “ yeah he seems nice”.

I think I'd tell her just so I'd know I'd tried. That's definite paedophilic vibes there, certainly enough to be wary. I'd want a heads up if it was my partner. If this is a pattern of behaviour then the more separate people mention it, the more likely she is to take it seriously. Eventually.

But be prepared to be dropped again.

I wonder if she lets him help her dd on the toilet too? I would ask her this, just to clarify her own common sense.

I feel worried for the daughter of your friend op.

Tell her and say
He seems nice enough but I felt a bit unnerved by him trying to wipe dd’s bum on one occasion and trying to take her to the toilet on another. Typically non related males wouldn’t dream of doing personal for children they don’t know. I know how badly your last relationship effected you. Have you thought about asking for a Claire or Sarah’s law just in case?

Have the conversation with your friend. She needs to know your concerns and that you will be keeping your children away from him.

If it causes a problem with your relationship with her, sobeit but you cannot take the risk with your children. I would keep my children away from her BF, 100%.

Well done OP. I absolutely think you are right to say something to your friend.

Something like
He seems OK but some of his behaviours made me and my family feel uncomfortable...................................
He overstepped boundaries
He seemed over attentive with my DD..................................
I have never known another man act like that to a child they've only met an hour before

Keep it factual.

Good luck. It might cause WW3 initially but hopefully she will reflect and think very hard about this man.

Hopefully you are wrong but you might not be.

God this is really grim and very concerning

The only thing I can come up with in the guys defence is that I would expect dodgy men to be more discreet/subtle about it rather than basically announcing they were a pervert at your house and again at the dinner table

You definitely need to tell your friend these concerns. My conscience wouldn't be clear if I kept that to myself

I can't believe you didn't challenge him when you got back from cleaning her up.

Like "WTF do you think you're up to?"

I've never heard anything so blatantly perverse!

The trying to wipe your dd and take her to the toilet is so out of line. Be honest with her because this is extremely concerning

I was honestly shocked at how blase the first comments were. (No time to read more). Op, this screams pedophilia and a huge red flag. You have a duty to report this to your friend, especially if she didn't see it. It is extremely creepy for him to rush to wipe your child's bum after she called for you and close the door to shut you out. Sexual abuse is devastating and hard to overcome and I encourage you to have strong words with your friend.

This is a different situation than last as it involves a likely predator, plus your friend admitted she should have listened to you last time so she might smarten up. Even the brownie thing isnt great as he undermined you.

Your friend has already moved in a partner of a year with an already traumatised 4 year old and they are showing that level of red flags to someone they have just met (and it is a massive red flag)
yes you say something and possibly not just to her

@LauderSyme and what is the basis for your expertise in this matter ?

I would express your concerns over the toilet thing, that isn't right. A strange man offering to take a child he's just met to the toilet, absolutely no chance!

Very tough one but I wouldn’t be able to keep it to myself as uncomfortable as it may be to approach. Like you said, just imagine if in years to come if you hadn’t said anything and a horrific situation came to light.

Just be honest and say you thought the two toilet incidents were odd.

I understand people having an instinct to go nuclear given this man’s behaviour, however, my previous reply came from the viewpoint of what does @Whatdoyouthink65 want to achieve?

It’s not to protect her own child, because she can ensure that. It’s for her friend to wise up to her partner and make sure her own daughter is safe.

Look at the history and facts.
OP and friend were childhood best friends who are now more remote both emotionally and geographically.
Friend has a history of bad choices and an abusive relationship.
Friend didn’t listen to warnings.
Friend has moved in with this man, is seemingly very happy and planning another baby.
Friend has either not seen any red flags or is ignoring them.

However carefully OP phrases her absolutely legitimate concerns, friend is likely to blow up and disregard them, unless OP can at least plant seeds to raise her friend’s awareness. The last thing you want is for this to be brushed off and dismissed out of hand.

If you’d remained closer it may have been easier to sound off, but I think this needs a more considered approach despite the gravity of the situation.

Whoever said the relationship has already changed since you don’t want your kids near him is spot on. I see people dismissing the sugar thing but they missed the update your daughter is an unstable diabetic. If I had an unstable diabetic child and some random man implied he’d feed her sugar behind my back I’d tell him to get the fuck away from my child and if he ever feeds a diabetic child sugar knowing the parents say no he deserves to be charged with assault. We have type 1 diabetics in the family.

I think the situation is already too serious for OP to be the one to have to fix it. And her friend shows very questionable judgement.

Isn't it a fact that paedos get with these sort of women with young children specifically to groom them?

I'd say something and suggest she does one of those background checks with the police.

One thousand times this

This rings such alarm bells for me. Even as a woman (who is generally seen by society as being 'safe' around children), I would never offer to take another parent's child to the toilet if the parent was there to do it themselves, unless by 'take to the toilet' it simply involved showing them where our toilet was. Unless it was an absolute emergency, I would never offer to wipe a child's bum who wasn't mine. Thinking of the men close to me who are dads, I think they would do absolutely everything they possibly could to get out of any situation that involved personal care of someone else's child. Because society does look suspiciously on men and see men as always a 'potential risk'. It's the fact that he's not abiding by those social cues and inserting himself into situations where he could touch a child that is really worrying.

I'll give you an example. I know someone who I've always felt was a bit 'off'. They have strange boundaries, and can push boundaries a bit with people, insert themselves into situations where they aren't needed. A bit too close for comfort, if that makes sense. I found out that this person is a member of a naturist club for families (but has only adult children - who are NC, btw - so no need for a family naturist club). When I said this to someone (also a man) their response was a visceral one, they could not imagine as a man ever wanting to be naked in front of someone else's child. It would feel completely weird and inappropriate. This is how most men, I imagine, would feel about taking a random child to the toilet. This person (the naturist one) I found out later, had been convicted of sexually abusing his own child. That gut reaction to his behaviour by all of us was spot on. It felt 'off' because it was off.

Honestly, if this was me, I'd put a Clare's/Sarah's Law request in about him on your friend's behalf. If nothing comes up, they won't do anything (and they won't even tell her it's been requested). If something does come up, and esp for Sarah's Law if it's been flagged up that she has a child, then they will contact her to disclose. But yes, massive red flags for me and your dh picked up on it too. I would be honest with her, but prepare for her to not take it well. In the instance above with naturist guy, I expressed my concerns. I am NC with that family member now and they are still with this perv.

@gindreams I am

A survivor of CSA. A child witness to CSA. A sibling of a survivor. Friends with multiple survivors and acquainted with multiple more survivors. Sadly.

Yes. You have to tell her.

I don't understand why some of the advice on here is for the OP to say that the man was ok but there were some concerns. Just be forthright and honest that there are bloody huge red flags flying because he repeatedly wanted to be in the toilet with your daughter. Don't pussyfoot around it if you want to keep your friend and her daughter safe.

no no no no

Why say "I liked him" even if you say "but I wasn't...."

Don't lie and say you liked him, she DIDNT LIKE HIM, he made her skin crawl, she got nonce vibes, she definitely didn't like him...

Maybe she has doubts, but for whatever reason isn’t trusting herself.

Tell her exactly what you’ve said here. What she does with the information is up to her, but if there’s any chance she will take heed, please tell her.