Manager saw my Teams message - AIBU

[Mumatwork24]

Need some advice please! My supervisor saw a teams message that I sent to my colleague (same level as me) and I just want others' perspectives on this situation.

Last year a secondment came up within the team that I applied for. My supervisor was supportive at the time, (she always is) and encouraged me to go for it. It was a promotion and would be the next obvious step for me to progress my career.

Long story short, the team manager and his senior (both of whom were on the interview panel) gave the job to someone internal from another team who was already operating at a higher level than me. Feedback was they thought I could have done so much better, they were frustrated because "they knew me" and it was just a case for me of getting through the interview. I'm exasperated because they loved the presentation, they know I already perform way and above my duties and am effectively a ready-made manager in this field - this was also what was fed-back. The person they employed as I mentioned was a few bandings up from me already but had no prior experience at all in the field.

Another secondment came up two weeks ago and was circulated to everyone by the team manager. My colleague and I were talking over Teams about it - I encouraged him to go for it as he is very skilled and like me, wishes to progress his career. He texted me back and said no, he wasn't ready for that jump just yet and that I should go for it. I replied that interviews are a popularity contest and that people employ people they think they can best work with, and as long as they've got the basic skill-set they can make it work. This is honestly what I think and it explains why, in most cases people choose individuals who don't have any experience over ones that do. It's all about whether your face fits as my recent experience proved.

He answered that I should go for it and I just replied "nah, they don't want me." Of course I wouldn't have shared these honest thoughts with management but it's genuinely how I feel and what I think. I've accepted that I wasn't the preferred choice, and that someone else was a better fit. I've not let it impact my work - I perform to a high level, I go above and beyond what's expected of me in this role and I make efforts with team socials and contribute to meetings.

Little did I realise, my line manager was sat with my colleague throughout the Teams exchange - he later told me she was reading over his shoulder and he only realised at a later point. She hasn't said anything to me but she does seem a bit down if I'm honest and I feel guilty. AIBU to feel this way? She's a nice lady and I'm lucky to have her as my direct line manager. But I'm not going to pretend I don't feel that way about interviews in terms of them being a popularity contest as that's clearly what they are. I've worked hard in this team and at the time I was upset as the rejection hurt like crazy but I've since realised it's not because of my lack of skill. The new recruit told me she's learning the ropes from scratch which is fine - but it just confirmed that they must think I'm a total misfit in their team, so I'm not going to put myself in the arena again. They'd just shred my application probably!

Am I being silly or am I justified? Has this ever happened to anyone else?

Thank-you

It’s not the reason you didn’t get the job. But this sort of thing not going to help you going forward. It’s only going to make people think it was the right decision. If this manager decides to have mona to their work friends about this. How will that help you? I would hope they wouldn’t. But if they take the same attitude of ‘well it’s true so doesn’t matter if I tell people at work’ it’s going to reflect badly on you.

It wasn’t a private conversation. You said your manager seems bothered by it. And you said you feel a bit guilty. So you know you did something you shouldn’t have.

As I said above, you actually have no idea if the manager read it over the persons shoulder, they could have showed them. But even if they did read it over their shoulder, you created this situation.

People at senior levels do throw their toys out of their prams and are judged for it. Or at least in every job I have. Our CEO, who owns part of the company, has just had to step down because he threw his toys out of the pram one too many times and too publicly. The investors weren’t having it.

No one says it doesn’t happen. But not dealing with it professionally only negatively impacts you.

Teams and online work chat functions aren’t new. It’s not private. Don’t ever say anything on there you don’t want someone else to read. But also telling colleagues ‘it’s a popularity contest’ doesn’t help you. isn’t that the most important thing?

I know exactly how you feel as I applied for 3 internal jobs last year. My application and CV were well received which lead me to getting shortlisted from a lot of competition. I was qualified for the job and had the right experience and skills but I interviewed poorly due to my nerves letting me down. In both cases , less experienced people in my team got those jobs because they interviewed well and that was the feedback i got.

It shattered my confidence for a few months and i was so upset with myself as i knew i was capable, but I spoke to my manager and we did some interview training and worked on my self confidence. When the job came round again, just before Christmas I felt ready and confident. My interview went so much better, I was confident which came across and it went so well that they chose not to interview anyone else.

so i can understand how you feel, it can be embarassing wheh you dont get an internal and everyone knows, but don't et this stop you progressing in your career. Take time to work on your interview technique, ask for feedback from senior management, ask for a mock interview etc. You will get there!

I interview in my role and it can be really frustrating when someone you know would be good at the job then performs badly in the interview and doesn’t answer the questions properly. We have a point scoring system and the person who scores the highest gets the job.

I think this is the same across the Public sector isn't it ? I know a lot of the answers that score points have very little to do with previous experience, how well you would manage a role and fit within a team and seem to be more about appearing to adhere to the organization's ethos.
However anyone can learn to hit the top score on those questions with a bit of research, and so can @Mumatwork24 if they put their mind to it.

It is extremely unprofessional of them to read your messages over someone's shoulder as those were part of a private exchange. You can criticize the OP all you want but if they weren't being nosey reading something not meant for them then this would be a non-issue. I would be furious to know that my manager was reading my messages over their shoulder. It does not matter that the company can read them. They shouldn't unless it is necessary. Neither party gave their permission to read them and her manager is being the sulky one. It is a massive invasion of privacy and completely unprofessional.

OP, don’t give up on applying for another role in same team/dept.

A few years ago, I applied for a promotion in a small team, I didn’t get it. I was gutted but did my best to crack on with my existing job and welcome my new boss (who had been my equal colleague previously) I cried for about a week about it. 18 months later, promotion opportunity in same team, I didn’t want to go for it, didn’t want the rejection. New boss (of the job I wanted originally), persuades me to go for it. I worked harder at interview prep this time, prepared a bloody amazing presentation and smashed it. Still in this job now and growing my own little team. Worth the wait.

But be careful who you trust, written chat/comms can be seen by those you least want to.

Have a chat with your manager, explain how you were feeling and get yourself some more interview prep/mock.

best of luck x 💐

Ha ha! So well said...

Why are the majority of senior leaders men? Oh yeah, because they are much better at networking on the golf course, at the footie, drinks after hours. While all the girlies are at home multi-tasking and trying to get the kids to bed......

Having interviewed internal candidates for a senior role, we have a score sheet. Who ever scores the highest gets the job. If it was tied we would go with a gut feeling. I have to say normally everyone scores in the same order as the rest of the panel. So it's not about someone having a personal preference.

Only once have I interviewed someone then once they have left, a panel member has said "that was pure BS, they have never done the things they said they have" but tbh they came across badly anyway.

Think its fairly standard practice these days that all candidates are asked the exact same questions which are scored- highest score gets the job. This means there is evidence if there are any accusations of bias.
It sounds like your LM wanted to give you the job but the other person scored higher during the interview. It does suck if your not great under interview conditions but it does mean interview panels are “fair” to all. Hence the comments about knowing you could do the job- likelihood you would have been the preferred choice but their hands were tied.

Years ago my manager was interviewing for a new member of staff- there was 1 person who probably would have fitted perfectly into our team however they hadn’t had much notice for the interview so missed out to someone else who was better prepared by a few points. Person who got the job didn’t give my manager a good vibe but answered the questions well- he was right they were a nightmare to work with……..

I was supportive until I read the "throw a paddy", please don't ever say that again. It is very offensive.

So many HR people and middle managers on this thread showing just how HR only exists for HR’s sake and why the whole ‘failing upwards’ into management is just so totally true in most cases.

Fancy having a loyal and hardworking employee who fails to pass some bullshit arbitrary process to tick some HR boxes on the day (because let’s face it, that is all HR really is) and instead pick someone totally unknown who ‘interviews better’ (ticks more boxes). No wonder UK productivity is among the worst in the western world.

Hi

Tips time and it worked for me.

Many years ago, around 35 years I was on a temp contract and there was a vacancy - the job was so sort after in the social services department, in general chat in a team meeting someone asked if many had applied and was a good calibre of people - the response, yes and yes. It transpired over 150 apps and 30 interviewed

(I had applied for other osts in NHS and soc services but started coming 3r and second and twice I was beaten by someone alrealy in the department by temp contract

Tip Time = Seek if possible a mock interview from people not involved in the interview. Look at the shortlisting criteria and the job app as it offers details on what you may be asked and what the shortlisting criteria is. Take in bullet point concise notes and ask if you can refer to them and most will say yes. Treat the panel as clowns ie not those you work with bet meeting some people for the first time who dont know you - ask for a moment's thinking time - ask them to repat the question as I often forgot what was asked.

I was the first to score 100 out 100 points.

This was years ago and never had an interview since other than one to one's for pay scale rises

It may be different in the private sector but i have never worked in it and even soc services/nhs interviews may have changed

Initially, I could not even get an interview

it hurts when you dont get the job and you have been there for a while, but there is always another day

If anyone is lol at you, trust me they are nasty people

Revision for interview, concentrate on whats in the application forms, job spec and if you don't know be honest - towards the end when u r asked if you want to add anything - you may want to add a bit more and just tell them you get really nervous at interviews

Many thanks

I'm not hR and there are decent and bad HR just like any HR etc

To interview fairly they must abide by the rules.

I was on a few interview pannels, the most junior person there as the manger felt it important to inc my grade as most of use had as much knowldge as almost anyone in the dept - many were unhappy - one temp qualified person did not get the job they kicked up a stink and called us in one, by one re interview process - as it was conducted fairly, the temp did not get the job and was offered another contract - he decided to leave

Interviews have to be fair but I understand where you are coming from

Who makes the rules though? It’s HR isn’t it.

The user yo uquotes is right- it's a tick a box activity, not who is suited for the job. And let's face it, nepotism is widespread and it's fairly easy to evidence someone scored more than someone else if you want to.
I once went to an interview against 7 other people, we all knew in the first 5 minutes who would get the job and sure enough they did. They were earmakred for the job and the rest of us were invited in case they dont take it I guess.
Telling people the interviewing process is fair if a blatant lie- sometimes it may be, but it's easy to skew it and then give feedback along the lines "You need to do more networking".

So many HR people and middle managers on this thread showing just how HR only exists for HR’s sake

I'm not HR or a middle manager 🤷‍♀️

This is very true. I only write on Teams what I wouldn’t mind being shared with my manager. I switch to WhatsApp for the goss 😂

OP I think you should go for it. I went for a promotion in a team we work closely with. Didn’t get it, the hiring manager hired her former colleague. Didn’t let it phase me and I got the next one. I got useful feedback from the first one which helped.

Also having been a hiring manager it is very much a box ticking exercise - so you can’t only give it based on who you know. If a candidate knock it out of the park (or bombs) you can’t ignore that

Glad to hear it.

YABU. You didn’t score well enough to earn the job and someone else did. That is obviously how they progress applications at the company and you’d know this surely? Did you ask? It seems they made it clear they KNOW you’re a good fit, but you didn’t work the interview in your favour as well as the other candidate.

To then turn it around and put it down to a popularity contest sounds bitter. And to do so via a work communications system is extremely silly. Your boss is likely disappointed in you.

Fancy having a loyal and hardworking employee who fails to pass some bullshit arbitrary process to tick some HR boxes on the day (because let’s face it, that is all HR really is) and instead pick someone totally unknown who ‘interviews better’ (ticks more boxes).

But in this scenario, the other person wasn't a "total unknown" - they were an internal candidate from another department.

So, probably just as well known as OP and just happened to interview better on the day.

This is exactly why interviews are just daft!

Exactly, and just proves how scoring interviews just doesn’t work.

There are plenty of people in my company I have never met and would not even recognise their name.

'Probably just as well known' is as much a guess and no more likely to be true than me saying they were 'unknown'. Unless you mean 'known to HR', which doesn't really count.

@DontSetYourselfOnFireToKeepOthersWarm

I meant that the other candidate was probably just as well known to the interviewers and senior management as OP is.

Of course it's speculation but two internal candidates are probably just as well known within the organisation as the other. It's not like one was external and a complete unknown gamble.

'Within the organisation' - so more than likely mostly to HR then.