Manager saw my Teams message - AIBU

[Mumatwork24]

Need some advice please! My supervisor saw a teams message that I sent to my colleague (same level as me) and I just want others' perspectives on this situation.

Last year a secondment came up within the team that I applied for. My supervisor was supportive at the time, (she always is) and encouraged me to go for it. It was a promotion and would be the next obvious step for me to progress my career.

Long story short, the team manager and his senior (both of whom were on the interview panel) gave the job to someone internal from another team who was already operating at a higher level than me. Feedback was they thought I could have done so much better, they were frustrated because "they knew me" and it was just a case for me of getting through the interview. I'm exasperated because they loved the presentation, they know I already perform way and above my duties and am effectively a ready-made manager in this field - this was also what was fed-back. The person they employed as I mentioned was a few bandings up from me already but had no prior experience at all in the field.

Another secondment came up two weeks ago and was circulated to everyone by the team manager. My colleague and I were talking over Teams about it - I encouraged him to go for it as he is very skilled and like me, wishes to progress his career. He texted me back and said no, he wasn't ready for that jump just yet and that I should go for it. I replied that interviews are a popularity contest and that people employ people they think they can best work with, and as long as they've got the basic skill-set they can make it work. This is honestly what I think and it explains why, in most cases people choose individuals who don't have any experience over ones that do. It's all about whether your face fits as my recent experience proved.

He answered that I should go for it and I just replied "nah, they don't want me." Of course I wouldn't have shared these honest thoughts with management but it's genuinely how I feel and what I think. I've accepted that I wasn't the preferred choice, and that someone else was a better fit. I've not let it impact my work - I perform to a high level, I go above and beyond what's expected of me in this role and I make efforts with team socials and contribute to meetings.

Little did I realise, my line manager was sat with my colleague throughout the Teams exchange - he later told me she was reading over his shoulder and he only realised at a later point. She hasn't said anything to me but she does seem a bit down if I'm honest and I feel guilty. AIBU to feel this way? She's a nice lady and I'm lucky to have her as my direct line manager. But I'm not going to pretend I don't feel that way about interviews in terms of them being a popularity contest as that's clearly what they are. I've worked hard in this team and at the time I was upset as the rejection hurt like crazy but I've since realised it's not because of my lack of skill. The new recruit told me she's learning the ropes from scratch which is fine - but it just confirmed that they must think I'm a total misfit in their team, so I'm not going to put myself in the arena again. They'd just shred my application probably!

Am I being silly or am I justified? Has this ever happened to anyone else?

Thank-you

Nothing on a work computer is private.

If she'd gone through someone's phone or personal computer, that would different.

Once you understand that there is no expectation of confidentiality on Teams messenger with a work account you are much less likely to get yourself into pickles.

I don't think a lot of respondents on this thread have seen a lot of the messages that get bandied around on Teams! People are allowed to moan, and they do. At my firm Teams messages get deleted after a short time anyway, if it's important you put it on an email, which of course this wouldn't be. The OP is allowed to be disappointed and share that with a trusted colleague (who she encouraged to go for a promotion).

Lots of quite nasty comments on here, but lots of constructive ones, too.

Find a mentor, preferably outside your company and ask for interview coaching and practice.

Resilience and calm reactions are skills needed to progress in any career

well you'd think so. Plenty of overconfident men prove quite the opposite, though.

Wrong.
'Not private' means accessible to company employees with the right security clearance. Not all and sundry.
Reading over shoulder in my org would get you a formal written warning and, on subsequent attempts, a disciplinary. It's not acceptable.
Especially as your OWN emails/messages may contain private information, such as health details that are shared with the relevant department but not even your line manager or team.
Or details of investigations regarding whistleblowing investigations, reports against your own management etc that they should not see.
Even PA's are bound by strict confidentiality agreements.

See above.

Completely agree. I’ve seen it lots in my line of work, a more technical type job, when people can talk the talk at interview and sound great, but then are absolutely terrible at the job. Some of the best people I’ve recruited weren’t exactly “brilliant” being interviewed but they’re very good at their jobs.
I also didn’t interview very well for my job, my manager fed that back, but he’s said time and time again it’s proved to him that people being able to interview well doesn’t prove they are good at that job. He’s never regretted giving me the job and is keen for me to get promoted.
If you think about it, external candidates can invent examples and make themselves sound brilliant. Internal candidates within a team can’t do that as obviously the managers are well aware of what they do. If a manager thinks someone is perfect for a role as they already work with them, it would baffle me if they opted for external to be honest over the basis of some interview answers.

As someone who interviews for internal moves and promotions, I agree with a lot of PP. Interview technique is so important. I don't usually interview people I know well to avoid any bias, but it doesn't actually matter how good you are at your job. It's assumed you're good at your job to get into the interview room. What matters is how well you can demonstrate and articulate that in the interview, and it sounds like you struggled to do that as well as the other candidate.

As others have said, that just means you need to work on your interview skills (which are an unnatural set of skills for most people, and not ones that we pro-active train and don't get opportunity to practise often - so it does mean that you have to go out of your way in your own time to get better).

Also, networking is important. It's about building profile and is the number one thing I attribute my career successes to. It's not about hobnobbing and evening drinks and going to the rugby together. It's about going out of your way to seek out opportunities to work with a wide range of people and demonstrating to them that you are competent. I used to do a lot of office-wide presentations if the opportunity came up, make sure I senior people knew who I was by asking to get involved with projects. A lot of people are incredibly flattered if you ask them for a coaching or mentoring catch up or ask them to discuss your career path with you - even if you don't work with them directly. This then leaves a favourable opinion of you with them as they can see you're motivated and it should help you too as there's a lot to be learned from people who have already done the things you're trying to achieve. To use the management speak, you need to identify your stakeholders and then make sure they are promoters and supporters of you.

But the networking often helps you get into the interview room more than helping you do well in the interview, as most firms have an interview process designed to take the bias out of the system.

You're being incredibly short sighted to never go for an opportunity again. At some point you will be the best candidate with the best interview and the 'most popular' as you put it - and even if you don't get it, you've had another chance to develop those interview skills and should learn something from the process to further your personal development.

Likewise.

@WhollyGlorious

You're being incredibly short sighted to never go for an opportunity again.

I think I will go for an opportunity in the future but just not here in this team.

I see no harm in applying again - what have you got to lose?
It's difficult to know whether the other person got the job because of favouritism or otherwise, but how can you not know about the STAR approach for interviews? It's very basic.

Unfortunately in big orgs interviewing can be quite rigid due to the need for fairness, interviewer notes are audited and benchmarked. If you simply did not give the requisite answers it would be difficult for them to hire you, they cannot make things up.

So you performed poorly at interview and expected to get the job because they know you. You then demonstrated unprofessionalism by using work tools to have a derogatory conversation with your colleague about the company.

I think you need to take a hard look at your suitability for a managerial role.

It sounds like you didn't perform well enough at the interview!
I often interview for internal posts, we have to give it to the person who performs best at the interview and it is frustrating when candidates underperform

Work conduct 101 - It is very foolish and unprofessional to use company comms channels for anything other than to advance a work issue. For that reason alone you should not be promoted

If you feel the need to whine, do it verbally and out of earshot of managers.

He later told me she was reading over his shoulder and he only realised at a later point

Unless she has xray vision I find this very unlikely; in fact I simply don't believe that someone close enough to read the screen would have gone unnoticed

Regardless of the rest, are you sure someone isn't making mischief here?

2020 surely taught us everything on Teams can be read by management anyway?

I think you should go for it. There are lots of rules around interviews to ensure fairness. Same questions to everyone. Pointing system, scored separately and then averaged. An internal candidate has the advantage of knowing the actual job so often they do best. If someone else does better you are not allowed to give the job to the internal person just because you like them.

None of that means you can expect to get away with using workplace equipment to badmouth your manager or your company's policies or interview processes.

Even if the manager had never "read the messages over someone's shoulder" (which I don't believe), she could easily have found out another way.

This ^^

I have been on panels, interviewing both internal and external candidates for different positions. It is so frustrating when you know someone is capable of carrying out the role, but they don't demonstrate by their answers that they can do it and do it well and are therefore marked lower than others.

It would be quite wrong to give the job to someone who hasn't performed well at Interview just because you know them. For all anyone knows other people who didn't interview well, could do the job better than anyone else, but all you can do is judge on what actually happens at the interviews. It's the only fair thing to do.

Also, gently, @Mumatwork24 if your attitude to being rejected, is to accuse the interviewers of bias because your face doesn't fit, and refuse to apply again, instead of going away and working on your interview skills, then that actually supports the decision not to give you the job IMO as that sounds immature and unprofessional. I'm sorry

I also meant to say that in many places, you would end up with a formal warning if you wrote what OP did on a company compute to another colleague.

I've never worked anywhere where you could get away with using company e-mail/messaging to complain about a manager or about how unfair it was you didn't get a promotion.

The same way that you can't badmouth your workplace on social media.

You are right OP time and again studies will show that people are selected for personality traits, in spite of all the smoke screen scoring systems. People like to think that they're recruiting based on fit for the job but it's a delusion. Managers don't like to be reminded that they work on feelings over logic.

Honestly, and kindly, I think you are being a bit silly.

You're valued for your skill and willingness to go the extra mile, so you don't need more of that. Your feedback clearly stated you didn't perform well at interview, so that's the bit you need to fix.

I have perspective from both sides - I'm an experienced interviewer and I am shit at being interviewed. This has taught me that if the interviews are being done fairly, it doesn't matter how good you know someone is IF THEY DON'T SAY IT OUT LOUD. You cannot give credit for what they would have said if they were good at interviews.

I'd recommend finding yourself a mentor, and seeing if a couple of peers or managers would give you a practice interview or two and feed back in real time. It's a game, and you need to learn the rules and techniques.

It can be done, honestly (source: got my promotion on the third try...).

What did I just read <head in hands>
Never, ever, put these thoughts in writing.

I mean, just whyyyyyyy!

There's a lot of credit being given to the interview panel here, which may or may not be justified.

Honestly, I'm sure we've all worked with people who turn out to be absolutely diabolical at their jobs, and all of them got through an interview. They are really not infallible.

Never put something on teams you don’t want IT or senior people to read. Thats always what I think before I put anything in teams.

Would I say it out loud and to the person I am typing about. If it’s no, I don’t type it.

You can feel how you want about something. But you then made, professional, derogatory comments about your manager to someone else on the team. Firstly, it’s not helping your colleague. Basically telling her if she progresses it’s not because of her skill, it’s because of how popular she is. Or she interviews isn’t successful and would basically feel how you do now. Or may not decide to go for any progression.

You feel upset and that’s fine. But now you are sowing negativity amongst other people. You are saying things that you may feel are true but don’t know. You disparaged your manager and the person that got the role.

You were actually proving you aren’t ready for progression. Because you can’t deal with disappointment without spreading negativity to others and disparaging others.