Manager saw my Teams message - AIBU

[Mumatwork24]

Need some advice please! My supervisor saw a teams message that I sent to my colleague (same level as me) and I just want others' perspectives on this situation.

Last year a secondment came up within the team that I applied for. My supervisor was supportive at the time, (she always is) and encouraged me to go for it. It was a promotion and would be the next obvious step for me to progress my career.

Long story short, the team manager and his senior (both of whom were on the interview panel) gave the job to someone internal from another team who was already operating at a higher level than me. Feedback was they thought I could have done so much better, they were frustrated because "they knew me" and it was just a case for me of getting through the interview. I'm exasperated because they loved the presentation, they know I already perform way and above my duties and am effectively a ready-made manager in this field - this was also what was fed-back. The person they employed as I mentioned was a few bandings up from me already but had no prior experience at all in the field.

Another secondment came up two weeks ago and was circulated to everyone by the team manager. My colleague and I were talking over Teams about it - I encouraged him to go for it as he is very skilled and like me, wishes to progress his career. He texted me back and said no, he wasn't ready for that jump just yet and that I should go for it. I replied that interviews are a popularity contest and that people employ people they think they can best work with, and as long as they've got the basic skill-set they can make it work. This is honestly what I think and it explains why, in most cases people choose individuals who don't have any experience over ones that do. It's all about whether your face fits as my recent experience proved.

He answered that I should go for it and I just replied "nah, they don't want me." Of course I wouldn't have shared these honest thoughts with management but it's genuinely how I feel and what I think. I've accepted that I wasn't the preferred choice, and that someone else was a better fit. I've not let it impact my work - I perform to a high level, I go above and beyond what's expected of me in this role and I make efforts with team socials and contribute to meetings.

Little did I realise, my line manager was sat with my colleague throughout the Teams exchange - he later told me she was reading over his shoulder and he only realised at a later point. She hasn't said anything to me but she does seem a bit down if I'm honest and I feel guilty. AIBU to feel this way? She's a nice lady and I'm lucky to have her as my direct line manager. But I'm not going to pretend I don't feel that way about interviews in terms of them being a popularity contest as that's clearly what they are. I've worked hard in this team and at the time I was upset as the rejection hurt like crazy but I've since realised it's not because of my lack of skill. The new recruit told me she's learning the ropes from scratch which is fine - but it just confirmed that they must think I'm a total misfit in their team, so I'm not going to put myself in the arena again. They'd just shred my application probably!

Am I being silly or am I justified? Has this ever happened to anyone else?

Thank-you

@ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees

The other candidate was well liked and well networked.

Yes this is true. I am not as “networked” due to taking mat leave

No one said you didn’t. I was simply explaining why someone is liked by management as an employee. So that’s why the other candidate was well liked, but also did better at interview and is already significantly above you in banding.

on one side I admire your total self belief you are above this person so you deserved the job, on the other I’m embarrassed for your lack of self insight.

I am really perplexed by some of the replies here.

The feedback the OP received was that they were disappointed at how she did at the interview, and knew she could do a great job. It wasn’t that, based on the interview, they found a candidate that they felt would do better in the role or that, based on the interview, she wasn’t ready for a more senior role yet.

If they were being ‘polite’, it clearly was too polite or just plain unprofessional. OP was also not offered any constructive feedback into how she could bring herself up to the required standard.

I actually agree with her that often ‘shiny new’ external candidates are chosen because hiring them makes the boss feel more senior themselves or might make a good impression on the ‘big’ boss.

I think that this kind of thing tells you to get your CV burnished and start applying elsewhere. A lot of very senior people aren’t more skilled than less success ones, they merely move every few years and are very good interviewees.

I’m perplexed by your response. The fact she might do the job well doesn’t mean she would do it better than the other person. Who did well at interview, is more senior, and they obviously thought would do it better than the op ie excellent.

Your follow up is showing attitudes that won’t help you at work.

And you’re still impugning the interview panel, rather than accept the outcome and seek opportunities.

Do you really think that the successful candidate had less skills / experience than you and/or performed worse than you at interview, and that the decision was unfair? Does happen but the information in your posts suggests they were a better candidate.

Newbutoldfather OP was given 1:1 feedback. The selected candidate was also internal and had internal experience working at a higher grade in a different aspect of the organisation’s work.

I think it might have been a hint.

Look at the positives:

• Excellent at day job
• Ambitious
• Hardworking
• Taking on additional tasks
• Well liked & get on with people

Areas to work on:

• Interview skills
• Networking
• Responses to disappointment

Everything you need is easily obtained and manageable. You have the rest of the skills. Don't let this unsettle or imped you. Get a good m, suitable mentor (consider personality fit, their skills & how they are perceived within the compsny company).

Still with it & come back to tell us about your promotion in 12 months!

PS, your manager will probably overlook if it's an out of character once off but will revisit it if it appears to be an ongoing issue).

What didn’t help is that my line manger told me later on after the interview that the successful candidate was well liked and the interviewing manager was very influenced by others and her name was “around.”

You are still not seeing it.... you are well liked too, your name was also "around" as your supervisor was recommending you. You were simply pipped at the post by someone who was the better candidate.

If you continue to say it was a popularity contest to your colleagues you are not only harming your own future prospects, but you will be viewed negatively as someone who attacks the reputation and integrity of their management team and company recruitment processes. Someone who cannot take constructive feedback or rationalise basic decisions.

Your teams messages will have made your supervisor see you in a very different, and not attractive, light which may impact her recommending you in the future. If you have aspirations to get into management you have been very naïve and immature and your integrity is now in question.

@ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees

Aww you are kind, thanks for your encouraging post x Maybe children have affected my self-esteem more than I realised

I wouldn't recruit someone with your kind of attitude to a leadership role.

I interviewed for operational managers about two years ago, two of the candidates were not appointed (more than that but this example is about these two), both similarly experienced and qualified, and definitely capable of the job, neither did themselves justice in the actual interview and both were given feedback around this and about giving examples that demonstrate actual leadership not just being an exceptional practitioner.

One took the attitude you have, feels their face doesn't fit and they're not wanted in a managerial role, the other came to me with a gap she saw in service provision and an idea of how to fix it asking if it was ok to pursue it (external agency type stuff so needed my nod), then went off and did so. She then enrolled on several women in leadership training events and clearly did some interview prep/coaching. The first has continued to work hard and it's still a well liked excellent practitioner, hasn't grumbled etc.

Both have subsequently re-interviewed for the same role, guess who got it? The person who actually acted on the feedback, took initiative and did something to improve their interview performance.

Our company does this, scoring to reduce bias. We promote from within because it’s better for us to retain staff and backfill the job at the lower level. Also because people with no promotion prospects will look elsewhere and you’ll lose them regardless.
Where someone is a clear fit for the role before interview we want them to do well but all candidates are offered interview coaching, external applicants too, as we want to reduce the risk of having to repeat the process. Give everyone the best chance of success, sort of thing.
Look at your CV or application. Assume that’s the only information the interviewers have about you. If you were them, what questions would you ask you?
You say your boss is supportive, it’s likely she will want you to do well next time and not be deterred.

Yep. You’ve proven to your employer you aren’t up to management standard. The interview process has worked very effectively here and weeded out someone unsuitable.

Is there still time to go for it this time around?

Give it a go, taking on board the feedback you received last time. Try to draw a line under the understandably negative feelings you've had, and focus on what sound like a lot of positives - they were frustrated because you just needed to get through the interview, you were encouraged to go for the role, etc. It sounds like you can do this, and you've just had a painful experience to show you what you need to do to offer them the full package. Add it to your bank of experience – learn from it, and when you're managing others you'll have an added layer of understanding if this happens to someone you're managing.

What an unnecessarily bitchy post. Why do women do this to other women? Did this make you feel good, avril? Because it has made you look like a right little twat. Go away and think about the fact that a real person is reading your sanctimonious twaddle. Perhaps YOU are also not suitable for management given this is the way you word feedback!

Did you feel good after posting that?

Feedback was they thought I could have done so much better, they were frustrated because "they knew me" and it was just a case for me of getting through the interview. I'm exasperated because they loved the presentation, they know I already perform way and above my duties and am effectively a ready-made manager in this field - this was also what was fed-back.

This is quite unprofessional of them and I’d really not be impressed by it. Telling a candidate that they “just needed to get through the interview” in this situation is wild.

Ignore the people rushing to pile on without reading your question. You did not ask for opinions about the interview from last year so all the replies about it are irrelevant. You’re asking about the supervisor and her reaction to what she read on Teams.

I suspect that if she is the one that told you a lot of the things you mentioned about how strong of a candidate you are, she’s simply embarrassed and perhaps guilty/upset with herself. She hyped up one of her employees for a position but someone else from higher up was given it instead. Now the employee has taken a big hit to their confidence and doesn’t want to apply to future positions, and she is bears some responsibility for that. It was poor management on her part; she should have been more circumspect and guarded about what she said.

She was also the one reading a conversation that didn’t include her over someone else’s shoulder. Obviously your rather thick coworker shouldn’t have been messaging when she was standing there but you didn’t intend her to read it. So no, I don’t think you should beat yourself up about it. I do think she will probably start trying to approach you about applying for positions and/or trying to build you up though, now that she’s read it and is aware of how you feel.

The moral of this story is don't put anything on Teams or email that you wouldn't be happy for your boss, Tom, Dick or Harry to see.

I worked for a boss who had access to various members of staff's emails accounts and they were completely oblivious. No real reason for this other than he wanted to catch people out. Information is power and all that.

Interviews are a fundamentally flawed process that disadvantage and exclude good candidates.

Unless your job requires you to give interviews (eg a politician or journalist) then it's nonsensical to select or discard candidates based on their interview skills rather than their work skills.

Fair interviewers cannot and shouldn't compensate for people who interview poorly.

This is outright nonsense, incompatible with the Equality Act and the opposite of fairness.

^ this 100%

Oh ffs it's perfectly human to moan about a bad interview to a mate, the manager should not have been reading private messages.
Maybe the manager is down because they gave a job to someone who was nto as good as OP, but had to give a feedback to justify it and feel shit they got called out on it.

Thank you everyone. Apart from @avrilovert

She didn’t moan about a bad interview though. She literally said that management in her company hire only on personal bias, she said she won’t bother anymore trying to progress. That’s not moaning about a bad interview. That’s condemning the people toh work for as bad manager, poor moral compass etc.

And it doesn’t even sound true. The OP did badly in the interview and was given the feedback she needed to improve, including being told to network. Instead of taking the feedback on board, she decided that the problems aren’t with her but are actually the managers not liking her, choosing their mates and not being fair. The OP didn’t moan about an interview. She was just entirely unprofessional and also makes herself sound pretty bad by showing she cannot accept critical or admit faults or do any self improvement.

You were told that they were frustrated that you interviewed badly. You seem to have translated this to being not as likeable as the successful candidate. Interview skills can be learnt and practised. Your application was good enough and your colleagues and managers obviously value you. Better luck next time (and remember that anything posted on Teams is not private).

Nothing you send at work on a work machine is private.

"Being told to network" is the biggest BS of a feedback though, is it not? It pretty muhch says- your skills which you have do not matter as we need a social bee. This is a workplace problem, if essentially people give jobs to friends or brownnosers, not necessarily people who have skills and experience required, OPs comment sound even more true. The manager admitted the job went to a popular person.
Her message to the other person was a private comment and the manager had no business reading it. Serves them right to find what people actually think of the process.