Manager saw my Teams message - AIBU

[Mumatwork24]

Need some advice please! My supervisor saw a teams message that I sent to my colleague (same level as me) and I just want others' perspectives on this situation.

Last year a secondment came up within the team that I applied for. My supervisor was supportive at the time, (she always is) and encouraged me to go for it. It was a promotion and would be the next obvious step for me to progress my career.

Long story short, the team manager and his senior (both of whom were on the interview panel) gave the job to someone internal from another team who was already operating at a higher level than me. Feedback was they thought I could have done so much better, they were frustrated because "they knew me" and it was just a case for me of getting through the interview. I'm exasperated because they loved the presentation, they know I already perform way and above my duties and am effectively a ready-made manager in this field - this was also what was fed-back. The person they employed as I mentioned was a few bandings up from me already but had no prior experience at all in the field.

Another secondment came up two weeks ago and was circulated to everyone by the team manager. My colleague and I were talking over Teams about it - I encouraged him to go for it as he is very skilled and like me, wishes to progress his career. He texted me back and said no, he wasn't ready for that jump just yet and that I should go for it. I replied that interviews are a popularity contest and that people employ people they think they can best work with, and as long as they've got the basic skill-set they can make it work. This is honestly what I think and it explains why, in most cases people choose individuals who don't have any experience over ones that do. It's all about whether your face fits as my recent experience proved.

He answered that I should go for it and I just replied "nah, they don't want me." Of course I wouldn't have shared these honest thoughts with management but it's genuinely how I feel and what I think. I've accepted that I wasn't the preferred choice, and that someone else was a better fit. I've not let it impact my work - I perform to a high level, I go above and beyond what's expected of me in this role and I make efforts with team socials and contribute to meetings.

Little did I realise, my line manager was sat with my colleague throughout the Teams exchange - he later told me she was reading over his shoulder and he only realised at a later point. She hasn't said anything to me but she does seem a bit down if I'm honest and I feel guilty. AIBU to feel this way? She's a nice lady and I'm lucky to have her as my direct line manager. But I'm not going to pretend I don't feel that way about interviews in terms of them being a popularity contest as that's clearly what they are. I've worked hard in this team and at the time I was upset as the rejection hurt like crazy but I've since realised it's not because of my lack of skill. The new recruit told me she's learning the ropes from scratch which is fine - but it just confirmed that they must think I'm a total misfit in their team, so I'm not going to put myself in the arena again. They'd just shred my application probably!

Am I being silly or am I justified? Has this ever happened to anyone else?

Thank-you

This. Sorry, OP. I'd go to your manager and explain that you were still processing it all but you realise now that you need to do better next time.

No, she set you up and you took the bait?!

Avrilovert's post wasn't very nice but by reacting to it, you are kind of proving she might have a point.

You need to get a handle of the "reactionary" side of your personality. Resilience and calm reactions are skills needed to progress in any career.

@Wouldyouguess

Depending on the role, networking can be quite vital. If managing this area requires bringing other teams in, or working with other teams or reaching out to people with different skill sets to support the work your team is doing then you need to have those relationship. Well, you don’t need them as you can just email and they’ll have to do it as part of their role, but it does go much smoother if you have decent interpersonal skills and can bring people together.

I did a double take when I read this because you sounded so much like someone I interviewed 4 years ago.
It's hard to make a judgement out of context, but having done a lot of internal interviews, the ONLY people who have had a 'they don't WANT ME' attitude are people who I overall would have concerns about being able to handle conflict (as i've been amazed how horrible people can be to their managers!) and ability to understand the balance of individual feelings vs business need.

"Being told to network" is the biggest BS of a feedback though, is it not? It pretty much says- your skills which you have do not matter as we need a social bee.

Skills are not the be all and end all of a job, though. Being able to get on with your colleagues and network with other departments and people is also a really important skill to have in many industries.

Someone could be amazing at the physical tasks they do everyday, but if they're difficult to get on with, or never speak to anyone else, or never show initiative and ask other people for support, they're unlikely to find themselves getting promoted anytime soon.

Whereas someone who is maybe less skilled but who is great at networking and always puts themselves out there may be more likely to get ahead - because work is about more than just your basic tasks.

@Itslegitimatesalvage
I dont know what jop OP is doing. Maybe she needs to be networking, or maybe not. Let's face it, many companies promote according to who knows the boss better or licked more a$$es- and OP's manager admitted as much about the other candidate, they were popular and got the job. So the feedback was- become more popular and you too one day will get the job.

I work in a company where a number of people were passed over for promotions who went to people who are very good at talking, not actually doing the job. Result: we have all suffered under a series of incompetent managers who have had no clue. You sometimes know from the get go who will get the job looking at the lineup- the person who spent a lot of time talking to the executives at the Xmas party and laughed the loudest at the jokes. I suppose it's something we most know from our jobs and it's so widespread in so many fields, it's just sad the actual skill comes second to 'who you know'.

If I were OP I would look for a company with a different culture,here it seems it will be a popularity contest and in a way I think it's good the manager saw it.

I think you’re having a bad reaction to rejection.

It’s now a decision on whether you shake off the self pity and have a grown up conversation to really understand how you can put yourself in a better position next time.

Or leave.

@lifeispainauchocolat But if OP was that difficult her manager would not encourage her to go for the job. The job was, as she herself admitted, lined up for someone more popular who people 'talk about' in the company. So OP was spot on with her comment about the interview process. There is a difference between soemone who is a disagreeable brute and someone who may not be able to spend evenings having drinks with the management and is missing out on opportunities.

Nothing that you write on email or in Teams with a work account is private. A lot of people don't seem to realise this.

Of course it's reasonable to have a moan but if you want privacy you need to do so on a private device with a service using end-to-end encryption, such as WhatsApp - just as you would arrange to meet a friend for a cathartic bitchfest in a coffee shop or bar off site rather than ranting in the works canteen.

But you are still not recognising that it is your interview performance that isn’t working for you. This is something you can work on , and will need to work on unless you want to spend the rest of your career with growing resentment about not progressing and watching other people moving up the ladder.

Networking appears to be seriously misunderstood on this thread.

It's not about kissing ass and chewing the hear off senior management & laughing at their jokes.

Do people really think most managers aren't put off by that shit?

Really networking is about building connections, learning from other people, sharing experiences that can be mutually beneficial, having people to bounce things off when considering change or having to deal with something difficult. It's about looking at the organisation as a whole rather than just your little role in it.

But at the same time, colleague A has messenger or emails open, I am not peaking over their shoulder to read the content, unless I'm a nosy b...
There are people within the company who have or can have access to emails and chats and search history and that is OK. Reading email or chat exchanges of other people is bizarre and equally unprofessional.

I think you've had a strange reaction to the rejection. Instead of reflecting on what you could have done better in the interview, you've decided you didn't get the job because your face doesn't fit. I wonder if that's because its easier to accept it that way - then it's not your "fault"?

I really think you should apply for the new secondment and then take as much coaching/practice as you possibly can from your supervisor or a mentor to help you with the interview. It sounds like that's the only thing that went wrong and you're well liked and respected for the work you do.

Maybe I wasn't clear - I wasn't suggesting OP was difficult or disagreeable, I was just trying to point out that your ability to network can be just as important as your ability to do the actual tasks at hand.

For example, if you have two interview candidates with the same amount of experience and the same qualifications, you need some way of deciding which one gets the promotion, and often it's networking that cinches the deal in many industries.

I'm someone that really struggles with networking and chatting with senior managers and other stuff - and I know it''s something that's held me back in the past. Being able to just go out there and network and get your name heard is an important skill to have.

EDIT: It's not necessarily about evening drinks either. Lots of jobs don't network in that way.

I think the professional ethics of this are relevant but they are a tangent to the point I was making - pp suggested that OP had a reasonable expectation that these messages would be private and I am reminding posters that this isn't the case. I imagine that the line manager could have legitimately requested the transcript of the chat if she so wished.

By that same token perhaps OP's colleague should have clocked that it was unwise to have this particular chat window open on their desktop when OP's line manager was in the office, even if he was too unobservant to realise she was behind him until it was too late.

@lifeispainauchocolat I agree, just stated that sadly most jobs go to people who are liked- so competences don't have much to do with it and OP was right to be upset and her comment was not wrong or far off reality either.
I suppose the 'feedback' triggered me, because it's one of the things that piss me off in general. Feedback that is of exactly zero value, because at the end of the day it depends whom the boss likes more. And sometimes ot does not matter what you do, there will be always someone more popular in the contest.

The other candidate did not have the experience, but had the 'name'. It's unfair and I feel for OP as people pile on her telling her to work on her interview techniques, but the reality was that it did not matter what she would have done at the interview, the job would still have gone to the other person.

Some fields are worse for it than others (show business, law, etc), it's a shame we all have to pretend like it's about actual skill, not about who knows who.

I think your supervisor is probably looking ‘down’ because she’s disappointed that you haven’t taken on board the comments made at your last interview. And possibly because she’s offended that you would take the view you have when she supported you in your bid for promotion.

I’m with others here, I think you should go for the job if it’s not too late, and if you’re invited for interview, take seriously the comments made last time, and be better prepared when you have another crack at it. I also wouldn’t let things hang in the air with your supervisor. If she hasn’t mentioned it, then maybe you should take the bull by the horns and do so yourself - that will give you an opportunity to explain your reasoning and ask her opinion.

I think you are being unreasonable and don't understand the interview process at all. It's a scoring system with points per question. If someone else said better things then they will have scored higher than you. I'm saying this from experience of interviewing staff. You can't just make up the scores.

What does your contract say in regard to emails, office space, and company material? If the teams messages were sent using a platform they own, then they may have a right to look through it. Read your contract.

@Wouldyouguess I know what you're saying about feedback, but often you have to say something and interview performance is an easy thing to latch on to.

The thing about having experience is that it's not the be all and end all of being good at a particular job. I used to work in retail management and while I was excellent at the actual tasks at hand, I was pretty pants at networking and colleague relationships and I know it definitely held me back.

Unfortunately you can't always win everything - there are always going to be people who interview better, or who are more popular, or who "fit" more than you do. There's not much that can be done about it, sadly.

@lifeispainauchocolat Absolutely, I didn't get a job a few times because I was more expensive and the job went to a beginner (cheap) candidate, and ofc they would not have said that in the feedback, so the stuff I got was along the lines "you could have said one more sentence in question 4" and it was laughable, I could tell they were making random stuff on the spot. Other times the job went to the better person and it's fine, but I think it's fine to state out loud that the process is rarely fair and is often about a face that fits not competences.

I dont think oyu read what OP said that the job went to a more popular candidate and maybe you have limited experiences in management as very often there are no 'scores' and there is always a lot of room for bias.

I think it's fine to state out loud that the process is rarely fair and is often about a face that fits not competences

Just maybe not on a work computer

...and during actual work with the manager reading the exchanges😅

Why was your line manager reading other people's messages OP? What a breach of confidence.
Now you know not to write things down.
You are entitled to your opinion. And you did nothing wrong , you were encouraging colleague to apply!