To think if you can't handle the children you've got you should stop having kids?

[Absolutelybloomingflabbergasted]

I know this is subjective but, I wanted 3 kids and knew after 1 I wouldn't be able to handle a younger child and balance life effectively.

I'm sat on the train, and, this isn't the first occurrence.

A mother with 4 children, shouting at her baby, telling her she's naughty because she's upset and being a normal baby.

Yes, we all get stressed but she's blatantly lying to her, saying she needs to shut up as the train guards coming and doesn't want to hear her racket, threatening to throw her dummy in the bin for being bad. Saying she never should of taken them out, 'especially her' 'she's too bad to take out and always does this, she never learns and neither do I, next time she's staying home'

I understand parenthood is stressful, but now all the other kids are shouting at this poor child, who is still in a pram and looks no older than 1.5

I found toddlerhood the most stressful.

I understand pregnancy and children come unexpectedly but, I see this very frequently in my area, which is very poverty striken and there is not a great deal of support.

I feel so upset for this child.

I'm sick of seeing people having more children then they are phyiscally able to and then pretty much abusing them.

I came from a household that did similar and refuse to do this to not only myself but my children.

I know this will likely be conflicting but, I believe behaviour is echoed from the role model or parent, in general but especially in this case.

It makes me so sad.

Also this I think - the no of children isn’t the issue

I'd never hit my children (or threaten to), but before you drip fed that, I felt yabvu.

I have most definitely sometimes, at the end of my tether, said something like "I wish I didn't take you for this day out, you're being so naughty, you don't deserve this treat day". Which is similar to my oft-used "if you don't stop doing xyz, I'll take you straight home".

You said the "baby" is about 1.5yo (not a baby) but she could be older. You said you can't even see her, in an update!

Also agree that this seems like a dig at larger families when parenting skills aren't really correlated with family size.

Maybe seek help for your triggers
Before judging others for theirs

Exactly. The op chooses to comment on how many children (dropping in several times how she ‘knew’ to stop at one like any other woman is stupid for not making the same choice) rather than focus on the issue or do anything about it. As a child of an abusive parent who had moments of vile rants at me in public, I’d have done anything for someone to step in and call her up on it. Actually, it did happen once and I remember that person to this day for being brave enough to call her awful parenting out.

I once had a similar encounter on a train. I quietly offered some help and the parents were so grateful.
of course you don't have to offer help but equally how does it help anyone to come on here and judge them so harshly. Yes, it's not good, but there could be so much more to whole situation that you just don't know.

Number 4 was particularly unpleasant and unnecessary and thankfully now deleted.

I have four kids and don't parent like that, I'm actually quite a laid back parent and people comment on how easy I make it look and how good the kids are when they struggle with their two. I think bad parents are just bad parents doesn't matter if you have 1 or 10. Obviously having more than you can handle makes it more stressful but still shouldn't lead to someone acting like that.

WTAF is going on in this thread!! I'm totally shocked at so many of the responses here. OP I'm 100% with you. I would, and have, felt the same when witnessing similar.

Seriously I can't believe people are defending that mother. MN is so bloody hypocritical.

If you said I saw / heard a dad berating his baby & 3 other children in public on a train do you think people would be tripping over themselves so accuse you of being snobby, being judgemental, not helping him.. as IF.

Honestly I despair of this place....

she's blatantly lying to her, saying she needs to shut up as the train guards coming and doesn't want to hear her racket

I probably wouldn't use "shut up" but come on, calling this lying is seriously far fetched.

I'm sure most parents have, in a moment of desperation said some rubbish like "if you do xyz then it's against the cafe rules and they won't let us buy any cake after all". No it's not true. But it's as much a "lie" as Santa's Naughty List

I am with you to some extent @Absolutelybloomingflabbergasted , I get that DCs can be hard work and sodding wilful at times but a few weeks ago I heard a woman with 3 dcs yell at the middle one ( about 4yr old ) a stupid cow when the poor thing had tripped up .

Your question was specifically 'if you can't handle the children you've got you should stop having kids?' and I was responding to that

@Poudretteite

Yes I was also responding to the title of the OP, which is very different to "should we enable child abuse?" which is a very easy and clear no. The question OP poses in her title is more nuanced than that, and I too was responding to that.

I just wonder if those excusing this woman's behaviour would be so quick to excuse a man verbally abusing his wife in public.

Would you go over to him and offer support as he might have had a hard day?

But is she actually stressed or is this down to poor parenting and the way that she normally operates? I have encountered a few families like this who's default standard parenting is threatening and swearing at the kids, but in many respects they seem more relaxed about other issues of parenting and less of a worrier than me, certainly. Some of it is just poor parenting, having not been set a good example themselves growing up.

I think this is the crux of the issue. It may not even be her choice to keep having children. Reproductive coercion and control can be used to trap women in relationships so I would not judge her for the number of children. She probably has not had good role models growing up herself and does not have the skills to act differently.

Okay, I understand I got quite defensive, which isn't something I enjoy doing.

I felt it was necessary to take a step back and make an update and also, I felt this was a tool to rant regarding the behaviour and how triggering it felt.

Yes, I've used my personal experinces and circumstances weigh my belief and opinion.

I rambled out a vent and, if I'm honest I wasn't expecting it to blow up ever so quickly, I was still on the train as it was going on. Whilst I couldn't directly see her in front of me, I did look back and could see how many children and overheard the conversations.

I've been in situations like this previously and have attempted to provide support and I've instantly regretted it due to the backlash back. Most people do not enjoy you trying to provide an input in their parenting, even if it is from a place of support, especially in the heated moments that can go on.

I don't feel I was initially rude in my post, okay, yes my choice of wording regarding not having more kids than you are capable to support, comes from my own personal experience of a abusive home and each child just added to more stress and abuse.

I also noted how, circumstances are different, not all children are planned, but there are choices and the ability to evaluate your own situation.

Of course, I do not know what the parent has gone through, I've not met them previously to know if there was a calmer approach to parenting with less children. I think it would of caused more uproar if I'd said 'crap people or parents shouldn't reproduce or further'

I understand how difficult parenting is, I'm sure we all do. There are definitely times we have all sat and thought 'damn I could of done that differently' or 'I shouldn't of acted like that, I'm an adult'. I know I've battled those thoughts many times.

I felt I relayed that in the post.

I feel, a number have stated, I am wrong because I don't know x,y and z laid out above and dismissed my initial remark on how we shouldn't be abusing our children and say its okay because we are stressed.

I feel a number have completely missed my point about poverty struck areas being most affected and the little support that is in place to provide a base, support and understanding of parenting prior to having a child or more children.

Today's world there is way more stress, cost of living, wars, bills, housing, fuel, the list is endless.

My point about recognising this and understanding that having another child or more, could progress into me being that parent through the inability to change my personal circumstances and get out of that situation.

I feel, the perspective I was attempting to make, albeit, triggered and flustered, has been totally disregarded and twisted.

I wasn't trying to state I'm holy and mighty or I'm better than anybody else. That realisation wasn't just a happy thought or decision, it was a massive and upsetting thing for me to be able to recognise my own limitations and put not only my first child but myself first and foremost.

Abuse is a cycle, that is learnt and repeated, as such harder to progress in later life and form positive attachments and relationships. This cycle inevitably continues as families age and progress.

I'd say this even if a parent only had one child, because why would you have more if you are struggling?

Making a massive, life changing and non reversible choice, which only cause further impact and cycles to continue, isn't going to benefit anyone?

I understand my view came out very negatively but I hope, with my reflection and further input, it will be understood a bit further.

Anyway, wishes of a pleasant evening to you all.

@winewine .. totally different scenario and not at all relevant to this topic.

If I saw domestic abuse like that out in public I'd just ring the police ...

I still wouldn't just watch and do nothing

I've always thought that potential parents should be assessed for fitness to have a child, as they are for adoption or fostering.

No one knows what the reality of it will be like until they are doing it and by then it is too late..

You might pass some test that makes you a suitable parent but then life happens and things change and then what ... Take the kids away?

OP, there is this odd phenomenon on MN (and possibly online in general), where you get ripped to shreds for posting about other people's parenting, even if said parenting is clearly extremely problematic. Apparently, being judgemental trumps being abusive in the vilification stakes. It's very odd.

Maybe what you saw was a snapshot and she was having a really bad day. What she was doing was still not OK. Some parents are just shit, but I think people would rather call out judgemental (in their view) behaviour than focus on the actual problem, namely the less-than-ideal parenting. Probably because they themselves fear being judged (don't we all?)

Years ago, I saw a family of five on a train, they had a boy aged around 6 or 7, a girl aged 4 or so and a toddler girl. They were sat in four seats with a table in the middle. The boy was climbing over the table and onto the backrests of the chairs, back and forth. The middle girl was seriously obese (not the slightly chubby that is technically obese in young children, but actual rolls of fat. The toddler girl was drinking coke from a baby bottle (yes, I saw them top it up for her, it was not squash, definitely coke). The parents were constantly shouting at the kids. I'm sure it's judgemental to say, but there was so much shit parenting going on there it was unreal. Absolutely awful. And definitely not a snapshot/ one off either (albeit maybe a less clearcut example of abuse).

You are very defensive also.

What can I call and report? On a train? Where I don't know where they are getting of, or what could happen if I do so?

I don't know their names, or addresses, the school they attend. How can I call SPOA? (Single point of acess) or raise a safeguarding if I don't know anything about them? Or the police?

You know nothing of my previous experinces or what was going through my mind.

That's not a different scenario, abuse is abuse!

No matter what shape it comes, you don't know how anyone could react and, personal circumstances have shown women are way more likely to go for someone and cause some damage!

No, and I don't really understand why you are still being so defensive?

There's ways to better yourself and your parenting......

I don't think you'll even read if I list a few different areas and ways of doing this, so I won't even bother providing any further input.

There’s times I’ve been on the bus and a parent is hollering at their child.
you feel bad for not saying something but you have to protect yourself as well.

I agree with the OP. Everyone can have a bad day with the kids. God knows I've had my share.

Days out that have been cut short or early to bed because of poor behaviour. Days where I just want them out of my sight so I can go and cry!
But never have I acted towards my children the way this woman has.

Yeah, maybe it's a snap shot, no we don't know what has gone on for this woman. But bloody hell, I'm shocked at the number of people excusing this

What sort of help? What did you actually do, that she couldn't do for herself?