To think if you can't handle the children you've got you should stop having kids?

[Absolutelybloomingflabbergasted]

I know this is subjective but, I wanted 3 kids and knew after 1 I wouldn't be able to handle a younger child and balance life effectively.

I'm sat on the train, and, this isn't the first occurrence.

A mother with 4 children, shouting at her baby, telling her she's naughty because she's upset and being a normal baby.

Yes, we all get stressed but she's blatantly lying to her, saying she needs to shut up as the train guards coming and doesn't want to hear her racket, threatening to throw her dummy in the bin for being bad. Saying she never should of taken them out, 'especially her' 'she's too bad to take out and always does this, she never learns and neither do I, next time she's staying home'

I understand parenthood is stressful, but now all the other kids are shouting at this poor child, who is still in a pram and looks no older than 1.5

I found toddlerhood the most stressful.

I understand pregnancy and children come unexpectedly but, I see this very frequently in my area, which is very poverty striken and there is not a great deal of support.

I feel so upset for this child.

I'm sick of seeing people having more children then they are phyiscally able to and then pretty much abusing them.

I came from a household that did similar and refuse to do this to not only myself but my children.

I know this will likely be conflicting but, I believe behaviour is echoed from the role model or parent, in general but especially in this case.

It makes me so sad.

Literally the first thing you get taught in Safeguarding training 101 is that Safeguarding is everybody's business.

Not that it's necesarily applicable here but how many awful cases of abuse n manslaughter or murder in children could have been prevented by someone making it their business and stepping in sooner?

OP, this must have been very distressing to watch and the woman sounds like an appalling parent.

That wasn't even addressed to you.

Poor baby :(

Just ignore @VanLife33. I've been repeatedly attacked and insulted by this deeply immature OP.

I continue to believe that the motivation behind this thread is suspect. I am a pretty good judge of character too, even online!

To those saying OP should have reported her: report to who? The train conductor? Maybe they could call ahead to arrange for the police to pick her up 'somewhere' on the say-so of a random passenger overhearing her talking nastily to her child? Or maybe OP should ring 101 or 999? "umm I'm ringing to report a woman speaking abusively to her baby, no I don't know her name but she had four children with her, no I don't know exactly what she looks like as I can't really see her, no I don't know her address but we're on the train to Lancaster, can you help?"

Well, the op isn't the only sanctimonious perfect parent on Mumsnet!

Agree - also those that have lots of kids then complain about it. You kind of know what you’re getting into when you are already a parent why choose to have more? Like our awful previous neighbours who when we would complain about their dog would roll their eyes in agreement and commiserate as if they were hard done by too. It’s your bloody dog you chose to have it you sort it out.

Small snippet of her day erm. in my world there is no right to shout,scream,threaten a child in any scenario. I see it sometimes when I'm out with my 4 and hate it, seen swearing at little ones,anger etc and it's not how I bring my happy 4 wee ones up. If you can't control yourself because of stress or for any other supposed excuse do not have children to take it out on them

This logic wouldn’t stack up if you read this back to yourself about a husband threatening to hit his wife. He’s only doing it because of money stresses, his needs not being met, no good role models of a healthy relationship? Absolutely no one would defend that behaviour.

So why defend a woman threatening to hit a very small toddler? What’s the difference?

I’ve literally said its’s not right. How is that defending the behaviour?

What are you going to do? Some parents struggle so much that they use verbal abuse. Those children are not taken off their parents. It’s not as if the children can leave like an abused wife might.

It’s horrible. It needs intervention.

Do you know what it doesn’t need? People who don’t have these issues starting pointless threads and hoping everyone will stand around nodding at how dreadful this woman is. OP has staunchly denied using this woman as a comparison with her own, superior decision-making - and yet she started the whole thread with a point about herself and how she’d approached parenting differently!

There’s an awful lot of black and white thinking on this thread.

You can understand the causes of the awful behaviour without ‘excusing’ it.

It’s as if, for OP, the only response is to totally write off the mother. Any attempt to look at causes is ‘enabling’. OP’s response to the situation is to start a thread ffs!

To give a linked example, a huge proportion of women in jail are there because of awful, complicated backgrounds (often involving men). Doesn’t mean their crimes didn’t warrant prison - but it also deserves a little scrutiny rather than a distant ‘those women are awful’ approach.

And OP - you listed posters who you thought had been insulting etc - but as far as I can see, you’re the only one who’s been deleted on this thread 🤔

Oh good. Maybe thus bolstered you might actually say something the next time you're sat back listening to a toddler being abused on a train.

I'm amazed by the courage of some people. The Clapham case on Wednesday, where people rushed to the aid of the women and children being assaulted by a man with corrosive with no concern for their own safety, has me in awe. I'd be considerably less impressed by someone who had goggled from their balcony and live-reported to Mumsnet what the awful proles were doing down in the street below.

She could have intervened. Got up off her arse, gone over, and either told the woman to stop it, it asked her if she was ok and whether she needed any help. Either one of these courses of action would have as a minimum diverted her from her immediate verbal assault on the child, and might also have had the benefit of demonstrating to the toddler and the woman's other children that the rest of the world doesn't think how their mother is treating them is acceptable and fine. When you grow up with it and it's all you know, someone outside the situation saying "no that's not right" can be transformative.

"Oh but she'll take it out on them when she gets home" - she's taking it out on them anyway. If tis is someone who can verbally abused and assault her kids just for being kids, she doesn't need a reason or an excuse. That's just what people tell themselves to excuse doing nothing.

I would be very reluctant to do that @herewegoroundthebastardbush in case the situation escalated - OP could have been stuck on a train with no-one in authority around and a potentially aggressive person. Doubtful she would have been doing the children any favours then. Maybe you would have gone over or maybe you would have thought twice, but as you weren't there at the time you will never know - it's easy to sweeping statements from the comfort of your home.

OP didn't decide to just sit on her arse, she said she didn't want to go over and be abused herself. I would imagine most people would feel the same. She made a judgement call. It isn't a black or white situation, how ever much you say you would like it to be.

Quite. She obviously won't and I doubt abstaining is her thing. . A lot of us here, Op included can say we do parent 100pc better than that woman. Why should we be ashamed or wrong to say that? We don't scream, shout at or threaten our children. It's a pretty low bar so why shouldn't we say we know how to parent and woman doesn't?

Well maybe I would an maybe I wouldn't,but if I was too cowardly to defend a child I thought was being abused, then I certainly wouldn't think my horse was so high I was in a position to berate her abuser on socials for likes.

You seem to have a tendency to use biased language to try to make a point IMO@herewegoroundthebastardbush. I don't think it's cowardly to not want to get into a potentially ugly situation in an enclosed area for anyone in that section, not least the children. Or that OP is on her high horse, she making a comment about something she felt strongly about as people do on MN. Or that she's berating her on socials for likes - which would just be weird and pointless. Although you seem to be happily berating her on here and defensive of the actual abuser.

I think you see tomatoes and I see tomatoes

At what point and how did I defend the abuser?

The rest of your post is just strange as heck tbh, picking out my phrases as if with tongs to examine them and then simply - disagree, which you could do without the strangely pompous stylings.

And.. you've done it again.

Sorry well not really if you can't understand English and perfectly normal grammar, but, of course, I use strangely pompous stylings because you disagree with me. Did you understand me, "yes", well job done then. I made a point about your biased language and then used your examples to back it up - I know from experience you have to do that on MN threads sometimes. From OP's explanations I can see where she is coming from, but I haven't 'bigged her up' at all or made out she is a saint, but I understand she made a difficult judgement call. I would have assumed that someone who thinks they would have handled the situation differently would still be able to understand that. And I don't think I have been very rude to you.

If you have to exaggerate all the time, to make a point, maybe that's because it's a weak point in the first place.

At what point and how did I defend the abuser? - You are absolutely right, you didn't and I apologise, but you do seem very defensive.