To think if you can't handle the children you've got you should stop having kids?

[Absolutelybloomingflabbergasted]

I know this is subjective but, I wanted 3 kids and knew after 1 I wouldn't be able to handle a younger child and balance life effectively.

I'm sat on the train, and, this isn't the first occurrence.

A mother with 4 children, shouting at her baby, telling her she's naughty because she's upset and being a normal baby.

Yes, we all get stressed but she's blatantly lying to her, saying she needs to shut up as the train guards coming and doesn't want to hear her racket, threatening to throw her dummy in the bin for being bad. Saying she never should of taken them out, 'especially her' 'she's too bad to take out and always does this, she never learns and neither do I, next time she's staying home'

I understand parenthood is stressful, but now all the other kids are shouting at this poor child, who is still in a pram and looks no older than 1.5

I found toddlerhood the most stressful.

I understand pregnancy and children come unexpectedly but, I see this very frequently in my area, which is very poverty striken and there is not a great deal of support.

I feel so upset for this child.

I'm sick of seeing people having more children then they are phyiscally able to and then pretty much abusing them.

I came from a household that did similar and refuse to do this to not only myself but my children.

I know this will likely be conflicting but, I believe behaviour is echoed from the role model or parent, in general but especially in this case.

It makes me so sad.

@VanLife33
Why is it a different scenario?

Why is it worse for an adult male to abuse an adult female than an adult female to abuse a baby?

Abuse is abuse.

Or is it only abuse if the perpetrator is male?

Woman abuses baby, offer support.
Male abuses female call the police.

Complete and 100% agree OP.

A baby is defenceless

*Completely

I did say to calling the police was an option with this incident also

@VanLife33
Which makes it so much worse

Yes worse not to do something

I've been arguing the point of the op not doing anything about this.... Have you read any of my posts? 😬

Ok, so what should the OP have done? Who would have taken any such report seriously, when we don't have enough services to deal with situations where there is severe mental and physical abuse.

She wasn't even sitting near the baby so it wasn't as if she could engage with the mum, or smile/distract the baby which many of us might have done?

It's not good, it's not right, but it is the way the world unfortunately is.

I don't think a single poster has condoned the behaviour because it's horrible. But most of us have been mature enough to appreciate that there is probably a context to this, and sadly it's one that very few of us have the ability to change. I just happen to think it's mean-spirited to post about the family as being so inferior to the OP and her family. I expect if this had been her as the child on the train, she wouldn't have felt that great to be discussed by all and sundry on the internet where a thread can easily be picked up by the media. She has basically set this woman up for ridicule online and that's not right either. Two wrongs do not make a right.

@winewine you are deluded if you think the police would entertain a report of this nature.

And sometimes, unfortunately, our hands are just tied. One would hope that there might be a social worker involved if things are bad, or a teacher might pick it up. Or that this was a stressed woman who couldn't control her children because she isn't equipped with the skills, and that's a sad indictment on society, not a source of entertainment on a Thursday night for bored middle class mothers.

I neither work in safeguarding, nor was I on the train, but I have the commonsense to know that the police would not intervene here - how many coppers do you think we have?!

So on one side here, it's just a stressed parent, I shouldn't state, share or express my perception or frustration and on the other hand. It's an emergency, I need to call the police, because the parent is verbally abusing the toddler.

I don't believe I could actually do anything right in this. Looking online, 101 is a non emergency option, which I could pursue, ask them to check the CCTV of the train. I don't believe they would of put the blues and twos on to a verbal altercation. There's also tunnels in that journey time and they could of gotten off at any stop?

Maybe I should have done something.
Maybe I could have changed something.

Wow Mumsnet, you succeed.

Maybe stop being so judgemental

Ignore it OP- some people are just being complete dicks or trying to wind you up. Seriously MN cracks me up sometimes- you could say that a stranger hacked off your arm in the street and someone would say ‘oh well, they probably were having a bad day and I’m sure they are lovely the rest of the time’
It’s really sad when you see parents acting like this with their kids. Although I’m not sure it’s because they had 3 or 4 or whatever. Probably would be similar if they had 1 or 2
Lack of education, their own upbringing and childhood experiences, poverty, bad relationships, bad decisions due to all of those things and more are to blame. It is really sad. It would take so so much government investment and a total overhaul of this county’s education, welfare and early years support over at least a generation to make any significant change.

@clpsmum i would judge someone who was threatening to hit a baby. If that isn’t worthy of judgment, I don’t know what is. What has become of our society if abuse of defenceless children is to be simply ignored, for fear of the dreaded MN judgment accusation.
Out of curiosity @clpsmum , under what circumstances would you adversely judge a parent? Would you have to witness them actually murdering their child before you felt it was OK to criticise?

Ignore it OP- some people are just being complete dicks or trying to wind you up. Seriously MN cracks me up sometimes- you could say that a stranger hacked off your arm in the street and someone would say ‘oh well, they probably were having a bad day and I’m sure they are lovely the rest of the time’

So true 😂

OP I completely agree with your sentiment. Though sometimes people end up with too many kids because of contraception fail, or marital rape, or… or…

I always wanted 4 or 5 but realised I didn’t really have the patience for that much chaos after my third. I’d rather be a great Mum to 3 kids than a so so Mum to more.

No excuses EVER for abusing defenceless children.
You’re absolutely right OP.
I’d have taken a photo and a recording and reported it to social services, if that’s even possible.
All those saying that we shouldn’t judge others… shame on you.
I’m not going to detail the abuse I suffered here, but my God, you always have a choice to break the cycle no matter how rich or poor you are.
Poor children.

Bingo! Knew an op would be be along saying this very quickly... but @VanLife33 if this in how this woman "parents" in public you can bet it's a whole lot worse behind closed doors. Sadly, people need to accept that some parents are just horrible to their children and stop defending them.

@Canthave2manycats
That was what someone else said.

Whenever I hear of cases of child murder in the news, I always wonder how on earth the abuse was missed. How did teachers, neighbours, friends, relatives, acquaintances not know what was happening and take action? Then I read MN, and I remember that we’re all meant to mind our own business, and not judge. Because there’s nothing worse than judgment is there. It’s OK for kids to be beaten to death, but God forbid that a mother should be criticised for it.

Judging and criticism doesn't stop abuse ..
Actions does.. doing something about it.
Stopping it

This is probably how she was parented, how she thinks she should parent, and also how she would parent if she did only have one child.

I find it very sad too. But you are making a link to her having many children that isn't necessarily there.

If you think you are witnessing abuse, what are you doing about it? Besides posting sanctimoniously on MN I mean. Have you gone over and defended the child? Offered your assistance to allow her to gather herself? Reported to the train staff? Anything?

Stop pretending you care a jot about this child. If you did, you wouldn't be sitting back sucking your teeth and using her suffering for likes on social media.

Theres no excuse what so ever to talk to a 1.5 year old like this! They can’t even be ‘naughty’ they’re too young to understand. Poor baby.

I do agree with a PP though, I think there’s so much pressure on parents to make sure their children don’t act out in public, she (the mother) could be really laying on thick with the authority mistakenly thinking it makes her look like a good parent, taking control. Maybe at home without spectators she’s more relaxed. It is incredibly sad though, especially with the other children getting involved that just hurts my heart to imagine. 💔

I agree with you OP.

I assume too late now but I’d have been tempted to try and sneakily photograph her or follow her at a distance off the train so as to alert social services.

That poor little girl is being subjected to abuse.

@VanLife33 but don’t you understand, you have to know to judge/criticise something before you can justify taking some action. Whenever we see something that seems wrong, we all have an internal dialogue with ourselves. Should we intervene? How bad is what I’m seeing? Is it my business? Am I being harsh in my judgement?

As soon as we accept that it’s OK to judge people who abuse others, that it’s OK to criticise people for their parenting sometimes - then we will have the courage to take action and stop it.
OP was clearly upset by what she saw, she didn’t say anything, she’s wondering if she should have, she’s reflecting on how it made her feel, she wants to talk about it. And people are telling her she should have helped the abuser!!!