To think if you can't handle the children you've got you should stop having kids?

[Absolutelybloomingflabbergasted]

I know this is subjective but, I wanted 3 kids and knew after 1 I wouldn't be able to handle a younger child and balance life effectively.

I'm sat on the train, and, this isn't the first occurrence.

A mother with 4 children, shouting at her baby, telling her she's naughty because she's upset and being a normal baby.

Yes, we all get stressed but she's blatantly lying to her, saying she needs to shut up as the train guards coming and doesn't want to hear her racket, threatening to throw her dummy in the bin for being bad. Saying she never should of taken them out, 'especially her' 'she's too bad to take out and always does this, she never learns and neither do I, next time she's staying home'

I understand parenthood is stressful, but now all the other kids are shouting at this poor child, who is still in a pram and looks no older than 1.5

I found toddlerhood the most stressful.

I understand pregnancy and children come unexpectedly but, I see this very frequently in my area, which is very poverty striken and there is not a great deal of support.

I feel so upset for this child.

I'm sick of seeing people having more children then they are phyiscally able to and then pretty much abusing them.

I came from a household that did similar and refuse to do this to not only myself but my children.

I know this will likely be conflicting but, I believe behaviour is echoed from the role model or parent, in general but especially in this case.

It makes me so sad.

Of course... The op chose not to make it her business..
And after saying she has been in this child's position baffles me she chose to ignore it
She's obviously not the only one who made this decision...the train was full and no one did anything.
That's what's wrong with society...
The abusers ... And the people that do nothing to stop it 😡

I should be shocked by the amount of abuse excusers on here but sadly I'm not. Ffs the woman is going to bring uo seriously damaged kids . Imagine being told from the age of 1 that you are bad, naughty etc. So sad. But until the woman learns ti abstain or sorts contraception she will keep having kids to screw up from birth. Sickening.

I get it OP it must have been really stressful to witness. I also often wonder why parents under (already) very stressful circumstances, decide (or don’t take precautions) to have more children. And then treat their children appallingly. Maybe it’s bad judgement, or not knowing where you can access free contraception.

Parenthood can be really hard. Our second child turned into twins and I have felt overwhelmed at times. I have been under stress in public situations where I didn’t handle behaviour the way I wanted. All I can do afterwards is explain and apologise to the child. Everyone makes mistakes. But verbal or physical threatening is never okay, never. How can anyone justify this lady’s actions? Truly beyond me.

This makes me think back to my own family. One of my great grandmothers only had two children, they lived in poverty. She once told me she knew it was already tough and they didn’t have the money, so she made sure to not have any more.

My other great grandmother had 13 children (14 if one hadn’t been born stillborn). She was (from what I can gather from my grandfather) a very kind woman, but they certainly lived in poverty and had a very cramped household!

Two women, very different directions around 1930-1950. But I’m sure a lot else played part, male dominance? Different thought processes? Not feeling brave enough to say no? Maybe my grandmother was perfectly happy to have all these children! I’m rambling here and possibly touching on a different issue 😂 but this thread made me think back to these women, as both were living in poverty. Educational backgrounds similar (pretty much none).

But what is the point of this thread?

Certainly not to help the child in question.

The only point I can see is that it’s an opportunity for OP to feel superior. Well done - you’re superior to a random woman on a train. And you know for sure her inadequacy as a parent is because she’s too stupid to limit how many children she had. But you knew your limits so are better. Slow hand clap for OP.

Meanwhile, nothing changes for those kids - but a load of people on MN can add their disapproving energy to OP’s.

@VanLife33 yes but the courage to intervene comes from knowing society will back you. And reading MN makes me realise that much of society won’t back you. They’ll tell you to not judge, to think about what might be going on in the abuser’s life, to cut them some slack, to keep your nose out. That’s why people don’t intervene. They don’t have the courage of their convictions, because of views like those on here.

If this child was god forbid murdered, what impact would this non-interraction have had on anything? You refer to people actually in the child's life, not some random stranger on a train!

This child, so far as we are aware, has not been "beaten to death".

You (or me pretending to be you?? 😄) got it in a nutshell.

@GreenAppleCrumble I don’t think OP wanted to feel superior. That’s a bizarre inference. She was upset and angry, probably a bit disappointed in herself for not saying anything, frustrated with the world we live in, where people behave like this.
There are no prizes given on MN for being a good parent, so OP would have nothing to gain by posting a thread saying how great she was and how shit this woman was.
She was just thinking aloud on a chat forum.

Now read this very slowly, several times.... no-one on this thread is excusing abusers!!! Give your head a wobble.

So then, what would YOU have done? Sorted out her contraception for her? FGS!

She absolutely did. It screams at you from the OP!!

@Canthave2manycats my point is that we should all be conditioned to call out abusive parenting, rather than mind our own business, as many on MN always advocate.

I used to see a lot of this type of thing in my old job. People under stress , like money worries, worries about keeping a roof over their head, mental health concerns, whatever it is just may be not functioning at a their level best, the concerns take up so much of their headspace they have nothing left. Then some people have zero experience of good parenting, all of us fall back on the way we’ve been raised to raise our own and people may have no good experiences to draw on.

Also kids misbehaving in public can be extremely embarrassing for marginalised groups who already feel judged by others. She may not ever lay a hand on her baby , and be great mother in loads of ways but embarrassment got the better of her.

i’m not excusing it. Just explaining what I have learnt over the years. It’s a very complex issue and the more early parenting support that people get, the better it is for kids.

How do you do that though? Move in with train lady?!!

How, in these circumstances??

@Canthave2manycats I disagree that that was OP’s motivation for posting. But as it happens, on the basis of what she as told us (assuming it’s true), OP’s parenting is far superior to the woman on the train!

Hard to say really, but a good first step would be to agree that threatening to hit a baby is shit parenting, rather than focussing on things like OP’s alleged desire to appear superior!

Very sensible post.

It’s absolutely true that very often humans behave less kindly when they are not having their needs met.

It’s relatively easy to be patient, gentle and generous when you’re going home to a warm house, full cupboards and a sense of safety.

No, it’s not right to use the words the woman used. But pretending she’s just pure evil and failing to look at the bigger picture helps no one.

@Canthave2manycats Do you feel inferior? Is that what the issue is about?

Because I'm not the only person who has stated a similar opinion?

I really cannot understand why or how you've grasped and fixated on that so much?

YANBU. I see it a lot where I live as well. And it’s all well and good people saying you’re enabling abuse when you don’t step in, but honestly that won’t help. If anything you can make a situation worse as well as jeopardise your own safety. I’ve reported a previous neighbour to social services and the police for abuse, and the bar must be pretty low as she still had her children years later, still abusive and still having more despite actually having SS intervention.

I honestly believe that some individuals choose to have more children as a way to divert their attention from their own pain/issues/challenges. I come from a family of 5 siblings, and unfortunately, my mother seemed emotionally distant as she prioritized her 3 dogs, 5 horses, 2 cats, guinea pigs, business, and eventually, a younger boyfriend. The experience was difficult, and I can't help but wonder why she didn't stop at two children so that she could provide better emotional support. As a result, all of us are struggling, finding it challenging to maintain healthy relationships, and it seems like our emotional well-being has been affected in a psychological sense.

Where did I say she was pure evil or failing to look at the bigger picture?

You're absolutely twisting things here.

I mentioned a post and then a few brief comments about queries of how I knew things regarding the situation.

I haven't said anything of the sort!

The only people that have been insulting, disrespectful and utterly rude has been yourself, @Canthave2manycats and @VanLife33

I will sleep tonight with concerns that I should have done more, I'll likely make a report to 101, but the liklihood thag I could have done anything is minimal.

You've all created this massive, egotistical view of me, that I don't even have the energy to try and correct any further.

But, don't just make up utter lies to fit your narrative.

Factually though, op is superior. As is everyone saying its not ok. That there should be a standard for parenting that should be judged, we have a whole insititution of child protection and social services to do this. That's the whole point, this woman's parenting was inferior, using threats of violence to a 1.5yr old.

A parent struggling with her children on the train, looking upset, at the end of her tether etc is different to seeing a parent plainly abusing her children. I’m sure some of us here would be happy to offer help for the former. Example getting frustrated trying to get children on and off train, offering a sympathetic comment and smile - empathising with the challenges and demands of parenting small children etc etc. but those things won’t work with abusive parents. And there is a very clear difference

@Absolutelybloomingflabbergasted is it ok for a man to verbally abuse/threaten his partner on a train because he’s ‘having a rough day?’ No it isn’t, so it’s certainly not ok to do to a child! Nobody wants to judge anyone, but making excuses for abuse is bang out of order.