A question to all those who think school refusal in schools is increasing due to lazy, enabling parents...

[Edsspecialsauce]

The question I always have is why?
Why would we choose this?
I hear all the time that it's all our fault, it's just parents letting them get away with murder. Enabling their behaviour etc
How come you get families where one sibling is fine in school and the other has to be dragged in screaming?
Why would I choose to spend my whole time in the playground begging?
Why would I choose to be on a final warning at work due to absence?
Why would I choose to be on antidepressants due being completely burnt out after five years of struggling?
I'm a single parent and my DC is disabled. I could probably get benefits and home ed, so why if I'm not bothered about her education am I dragging her through the school gates, crying (I'm often crying too)
Every day, five days a week, for years.

I am sure on a personal, individual level that there are many cases where the parents are not to blame.

However, there are plenty of cases where parents are actually letting their children miss school often and then the children stop being habituated to going to school daily and believe they have a choice.

I am teaching a class at the moment where a good percentage of children kick off at the school doors and their parents can’t seem to make them go in. I have to leave my class - taking the register or dealing with issues - and try and drag them in. And frankly it’s ridiculous. This was not the case a decade ago. They are looking at eachother and starting to think they can choose not to go in to class. Some - not all but some - of the time it is the parents / families having low expectations of their children.

Animatedapple you are making all sorts of assumptions here without any evidence. You have no idea what's going on at home or in the minds of the children. If you have multiple children 'kicking off' about going in to school, that's terrible, an extreme situation, do you think it is possible there could be something wrong with school?

If I had multiple children ‘kicking off’ before they came into my lesson I’d be looking at what was going on in my classroom to cause so much upset- it really isn’t normal.

I would not be a teacher for all the tea in China and I appreciate you cannot be expected, and in the current setup do not have sufficient time, to be experts in everything, including all the manifestations of neurodiversity. But are you totally confident that none of these children are neurodivergent and that those who are, are getting adequate support? I can’t believe nothing has changed at your school(s) in the past decade; that would be boring for all concerned and presumably Ofsted would take a dim view of things standing still too. So are you confident that all such changes have been implemented with consideration as to how they might impact neurodivergent children?

But what it really comes down to is the premise of the OP: why on earth would we be putting ourselves and our children through this torture (and fucking up our careers in the process) just for the fun of it? We are honestly not eschewing readily available, obvious alternatives.

@Animatedapple so the parents are getting their kids to school and as soon as they actually have to go into the classroom they kick off. Doesn’t that imply something is seriously going wrong in the classroom? What do you suggest parents do? For whatever reason, those kids don’t feel safe in the school environment. There’s not much parents can do about that.

Do you honestly think a good learning environment is one where kids just have to shut up and deal with whatever is thrown at them?

Just editing to say, I’m not saying it’s your specific classroom. Most of the teachers are trying their best, as well as the parents. State education in its current form only seems to work for a small minority of kids.

"This was not the case a decade ago"

As has already been discussed on this thread, changes made to the curriculum a decade ago, plus the Pandemic, have obviously changed things.

I don't think kids are 'looking at each other and kicking off for the fun of it' That just smacks to me of those who put kids with ADHD down as 'naughty' and again, usually blame the parents.

I've not earned decent money in over a decade. I used to have a fantastic career. I just watched it all totally go down the swanny in front of my eyes.

Even with regard to the apparent parents who 'don't care'. I overheard a teacher / parent conversation recently (we were having a parents evening in the hall, so not much privacy) The conversation with the mother was along the lines of her daughter never having handed in any homework whatsoever. It was deemed that the parent didn't care and was making no effort to help. I'd say that was a big pointer to something being wrong. Social issues, mental health, family problems and yes, potentially learning difficulties and / or Neurodivergence. There didn't seem to be much support involved as the parent was deemed to be avoidant and combative. These are often the parents that teachers don't have any 'admiration' for, and are therefore dismissed as just useless and at fault.

Imagine not being able to reach out for help because you don't know how to, and everything going to shit around you.

Jumping through hoops for OFSTED and ever changing curriculums, coupled witu class sizes now mean there's no scope / time / budget to offer meaningful support. And so, the most vulnerable just slip through the net every time.

Modern life and its stresses is totally unsustainable going forward, and something needs to start changing sharpish.

I've not earned decent money in over a decade. I used to have a fantastic career. I just watched it all totally go down the swanny in front of my eyes.

I know the feeling. I left my job as a solicitor.

I'm tentatively trying to poke my toe back into employment now and I'm finding it so challenging. Not many places are interested in middle aged women who've not worked for 7+ years and they know still have responsibilities for YP with additional needs.

As if anyone would do that for the fun!

I have read this thread with interest after commenting some time back.

I would say the chicken and egg-ness of having a parent at home can't be underestimated. My kid doesn't go to school reliably so I gave up my management level, career track job to take a lower paid, from home and part time role. I know parents who've had to stop working or not returned to work at all after mat leave as their kids have such high needs. There's a huge overlap with SEN and school "refusal".

The pressure on children is immense and with a high percentage of teachers who want to leave and are extremely dissatisfied with their pay and working conditions (and oh my god I do not blame them!) perhaps children are picking up on an impatience, an unhappy atmosphere or an eye rolly attitude more than we give them credit for. I wouldn't want to go to a workplace where my colleagues were all stressed out and my boss was one foot out the door.

I thankfully have not had to address this issue personally but from observing friends who have, it seems to be the problem is that the schools don’t take any responsibility for it . It’s as if having lots of children going in each day totally exonerates them from needing to look at what they might be getting wrong, yet parents who have some dcs who go and ( usually only one) who doesn’t are definitely where the fault lies( so the attitude goes). It’s a double standard. Schools generally are very inclined to think they know all about every child; but children are very individual and schools are very one size fits all. Parents have a more in depth knowledge of a child’s individual quirks yet are too quickly dismissed imo.

I’m amazed you’re a teacher and you cannot begin to analyse WHY this might be happening now as opposed to ten years ago. And you put the blame squarely on the students and their parents! Laughable.

That’s one of the problems with schools/teachers, they have this weird Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to reinforcing ridiculous rules and regulations and they can’t see outside of the ‘system’.

They become institutionalised and develop ‘group think’.

Exactly And they can see you have twisted it.

As someone who is now non teaching but works in a school your comment is disappointing.

Perhaps consider how the student has reached that point. The impact of mixed messages in terms of importance in school. The significant cut back in services meaning any kind of support is impossible ever. There are many many reasons for what you are saying and none of them are “ridiculous”.

the parents who get their kids in the car and to school should, as I’ve already said, be applauded. Perhaps ask yourself why you can’t get them in your classroom.

YES! That’s it. Institutionalised.

I was a teacher before I left to home educate my own DC and although there are some fantastic, dedicated teachers out there, many have no experience outside of an academic setting (own school days to university to working as a teacher) and have lost all perspective when it comes to what is normal and what is not. And many know deep down how dysfunctional it all is but they go along with it without questioning anything too deeply.
Like I said, Stockholm Syndrome.

@solsticelove totally agree. As a teacher.

And I think what’s awful is that, while for teachers/schools, these things are sometimes just a bit of a failure to look more deeply, or even another opportunity to flex their muscles and assert themselves as a “ good, effective, orderly school” ( then probably go home feeling good about it), the other side of the fence is parent, child, sometimes even whole families affected by the ongoing sense of failure and stress. I really do think schools forget that , while a student may be one name on a list for them, they are a much bigger part of their family’s whole world.

My DD has just turned 12. We pulled up a couple of minutes early outside school this morning so waited in the car for her to spot her best mate. Another girl walked past us and my daughter said to me "She has similar problems to me" then totally out of the blue, she said that all kids' depression and anxiety was caused by school.

I was sort of shocked, but not. I asked her if she really believed that and she said "Come on, Mum. Of course it is"

I know that, really. I know that my daughters safe place is home.

Its time they really started listening to kids.

your dd sounds very shrewd. I’m sorry she’s having these issues though.

And what she is saying just backs up what I’ve said on this thread (& many others about school!) that the whole system is just so dysfunctional for all involved 😞especially the kids. Society needs to wake up.

Come and join my new EBSA support thread if you are going through this.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5003192-the-ebsa-support-thread-emotionally-based-school-avoidanceabsence

Yes.
It is mainly due to permissive parenting not equipping children to cope with life outside the home

Interested in your source for this?

What a lazy assumption.

You know nothing about my daughters struggles. And believe me, I tried everything to try and 'make' her resilient.

It must be awful for you, feeling so resentful of us parents that have kids who are struggling that you feel the need to blame us for it.

Bravo.

No, it isn’t.

Lazy thinking.

‘Mainly due’. So does permissive parenting cause autism then? (Makes a change from refrigerator parenting I suppose…)

Why do You think this thread is all about you???