A question to all those who think school refusal in schools is increasing due to lazy, enabling parents...

[Edsspecialsauce]

The question I always have is why?
Why would we choose this?
I hear all the time that it's all our fault, it's just parents letting them get away with murder. Enabling their behaviour etc
How come you get families where one sibling is fine in school and the other has to be dragged in screaming?
Why would I choose to spend my whole time in the playground begging?
Why would I choose to be on a final warning at work due to absence?
Why would I choose to be on antidepressants due being completely burnt out after five years of struggling?
I'm a single parent and my DC is disabled. I could probably get benefits and home ed, so why if I'm not bothered about her education am I dragging her through the school gates, crying (I'm often crying too)
Every day, five days a week, for years.

Another new fangled term I have not heard before!

I was musing over what another poster suggested earlier in this thread about gaming and electronics being a factor, and it occurred to me that electronics could indeed said to be a factor - in that schools, particularly secondaries, often have electronic apps and data recirding systems.

These apps/systems, allow statistics to be generated, and decision makers love lots of statistics. But because it is a system that produces patterns of data, there is an inherent failure to record the individual child's needs, wants, etc. Individuality and nuance are lost.

These apps can also cause stress for students and parents, with continuous reminders, notifications etc.

Sometimes, the information captured is not accurate, but it stays in the system.

Sometimes there isnt a box that fits the IRL circumstances, particularly around attendance.

Using these systems creates a micro management culture, but there is little built into them that supports students with any difficulties, automatically polarising normal/acceptable and not normal/different.

There is a jarring dissonance between this micro management and the lack of action when problems arise eg you might know in minutes if your child has been given detention, or has missed a homework deadline, but you will wait months for a referral to CAMHS or similar.

Sorry this is a bit garbled but hopefully someone can see what im getting at.

I work in SEND. 80% are legitimate, the other 20% just can't be arsed and then end up damaging perceptions for the legitimate majority.

It's awful

This is indeed interesting. A friend of mine with a school refuser has had to mute the school app because it keeps sending her alerts about things that are already agreed/negotiated. Her DC has a reduced timetable but the school app doesn't seem to care about that!
I've been tempted myself, I have phoned my (reluctant) DS in sick, he goes to school late, I get the "not at school" alert despite phoning, he goes in, gets detention for being late, I'm told about it but he is not, he doesn't go to detention - escalated further!
I guess previous generation parents did not know if their kids were sitting smoking in local park instead of going to history - but we are told if DC are two minutes late for history and what the sanction is.

It’s along the lines of ageism…

I could write a book in answer to this question. (Maybe I should).

Hence this is difficult to condense into a short thread post…

However, some of my opinion and a bit of history.

In 2014 Gove in his infinite wisdom turned the National Curriculum upside down. His aim was to return education to its Victorian roots based on the 3 R/s. I’m guessing to recreate his 1960s Eton school days 🤔 So overnight went what little creativity was left in schools (not saying things were perfect before this mind but they were infinitely better) and in came lots of totally outdated grammar structures (fronted adverbials for 7 year olds, the subjunctive tense for 10 year olds and so on), in came learning objectives that were originally in Year 6 moved down to Year 4 and those form Year 4 moved down to Year 2 and so on. At the same time the SATs were altered to reflect this and suddenly the pressure was on. In my experience as a teacher all this achieved was the commencement of putting most children off learning/school and a curriculum which was dry, boring and outdated. Schools were under (& continue to be) so much pressure to get these children to a certain level. And so schools have become all about teaching to the test. There is SO much focus on Maths and English purely because of the SATs that other subjects are now demoted to occasional add-ons. Children who are not academic are miserable. I absolutely hated having to jump though these hoops to teach the most pointless shit to them. And yet schools continue to pile on the pressure (they are so beholden to ofsted they have not much choice) & it’s miserable for all concerned. Tough luck if you didn’t understand modal verbs we’re onto the subjunctive tense today. Tough luck if you don’t under how to calculate the area of a parallelogram, we’re onto algebra today. They have become exam factories and the students are just a statistic on a graph to be measured for the schools results table.

Obviously tests have been a part of school for a long time, but unless you have seen the things children are expected to know today you have no idea how harmful this situation is. I’ve seen 5 year olds who think they’re stupid because they’re being expected to learn spellings such as ‘muscle, hustle, bustle, castle, thistle’ yet are at the level of just about being able to spell CVC words (cat, mug, pan etc). The curriculum is over full and ridiculous. It probably meets the needs of about 10-20% of children at best.

Combine this with lack of funding all round, lack of support for send, lack of places for send children, lack of nhs funding which impacts on everyone, poverty, crumbling buildings, toilets locked, draconian uniform and attendance requirements, ofsted pressures, overcrowding, teachers that are burnt out and yes I will add the pandemic to this. This has all been discussed before but on some level it changed things. As has been said on here ‘the contract was terminated’ for many.

I have more philosophical views on what is wrong with school in its modern iteration but they’re often too radical for MN. I’m a true unschooler these days. I’ve done a full 360 from being the good student, the hard working teacher, the mother who dutifully sent her children off to school age 4 to someone who has no time for any of that. It was toxic for me and was toxic for my children. It was also toxic for the students I taught and I couldn’t be part of it any longer. It saddens me as I do fundamentally think school could be a good place. I’m a big believer in education and learning. It just all needs an overhaul for the 21st century and modern society.

I was told, in front of my autistic, anxiety- and guilt-riddled, school avoidant child that I'd be put in prison if she didn't start attending school.

Fucking bring it on I say. 3 square meals a day, not being woken up 4+ times a night by a sobbing teenager, and the LA will deal with getting her to school. I'd like to see them bloody try.

Yes: do write a book! It’s what is needed. And I totally agree: too much adjudication of regurgitation and not enough real education.

Christ. What is wrong with these teachers!

My son was told by his HOY that he obviously didn't love me because of he did he wouldn't be risking me being taken to court over his non attendance.

Jesus wept.

My child had the same struggles at 4 and he has at 12. Gaming has nothing to do with it.

I honestly can't understand this whole prison thing if they don't go to school.
I mean I just can't comprehend how the threat of prison for this actually works? And how it's even fair?
I can't get my head around this at all.
Why did they introduce this?

I suppose it comes from the basic premise that every child should be entitled to an education - which isn’t a bad ideal. It’s just that life isn’t tidy.

@solsticelove

Love this explanation. Agree book or at least article in newspapers required. 👏

Precisely!

I never went back to work as one can't take time off to take your own children to multiple appointments...

Ah… but that would be taking statistics for what they are, not using them to bolster an agenda!

Josette77 · Yesterday 22:50

MrsWimpy · Yesterday 08:26

I think it has a lot to do with gaming. Kids are addicted and can't bear the thought of being away from it.

My child had the same struggles at 4 and he has at 12. Gaming has nothing to do with it.

I certainly think not being able to spend all day on his special interests is part of DS issue with school - not the only one though - but while that can be gaming, at the moment it isn't.

DelilahsHaven · Yesterday 09:44

I suspect part of the reason that statistics show that persistently absent children have a higher than average instance of a SAHP or WFH parent may in fact be, for many, because they have a persistently absent child.

Exactly. We've organised ourselves around DS needs. DH was made redundant during Covid and is essentially self employed now and making bugger all money because he needs to be free to take DS to school whenever he'll go, pick him up again, take him to any groups/appointments etc.

I started WFH during Covid, and have stayed WFH - and my employer has been fantastically supportive - so I can work around appointments etc that I need to be at as well. The way things were when everything kicked off with DS, it's only because my employer is so supportive and flexible that I was able to keep working at all at that point.

To have us both working out of the house would not be possible. Both of us working 9-5 would be impossible.

Can I just point out on here that removing gaming from children who are already isolated from their peers out of school can damage them. It is the common sense approach but it is not recommended as it can provide a 'safe space' especially if the child is neurodivergent.

Removing 'fun things' and punishing a child for what they can't do is not the right approach to EBSA.

Instead work out what the barrier to attendance is AT SCHOOL and work at fixing that (if possible).

This was posted by my child's former school a couple of days ago, they seem to be doing a little series. I won't name and shame, as this won't be unique to them, or indeed their Multi Academy Trust.

I've commented on it to the effect that whilst this is true, a school environment can be hostile for children with neurodiversity/SENs.

I mentioned underfunding of CAMHS and other mental health services for young people, and that a lack of child-centered, flexible, caring approaches are contributing factors in the growing numbers of children who cannot attend school.

Parents of children unable to attend school due to their neurodiversity/SENs/poor mental health are already acutely aware of the benefits of their child being able to attend school.

I finished to say that it would be amazing to see an Academy Trust make meaningful changes to the way that children living with neurodiversity, SENs and poor mental health are supported, but this would be a challenge in the face of current government policy.

I don't know if anyone will read it.

I think if there was an overhaul, it would be best to make school suitable for neurodiverse/SEN students first, and then eirk from there, rather than trying to bolt on little adjustments to the current strict cookie cutter factories that schools are.

Good god @DelilahsHaven another horrendous overly simplistic and bullying poster! Good for you for pushing back on this utter shite.

@DelilahsHaven thanks for that. It's something I have a real beef about with schools.

I'm sick of being gaslighted by schools. They insinuate that it's lack of routine that causes anxiety and leads to school refusal. They also insinuate that it is therefore the fault of the parents.

I'm Autistic myself. I know how much routine means to me in everyday life. My daughter also needs routine and has OCD about it. Sadly, it's the school that doesn't give her that. Around every corner there is a 'surprise' in store. A new teacher or a substitute teacher who isn't aware of my DDs problems for example will throw my DD into a total spin. OK, some of this can't be helped, but it should be managed better.

I'd definitely argue that she has way more more routine at home. Sure as hell she has less noise and stress and isn't overwhelmed by people and voices everywhere.

A couple of months ago, they had an outside company come in to do a communication course with the kids. No advance warning to any of the kids or parents. The kids were made to stand up and give presentations. Total car crash. My DD has situational mutism and they bloody knew this.

At Christmas, the curriculum is all over the place. The school seem to think that the kids will love all these extra things they are doing. It will be fun for them. We'll not for my DD as it's all overwhelming and unknown. She went in one day expecting to do Computing and Music. Nope, it's been changed to an afternoon of crafts. Cue total meltdown once home. Because she was expecting her daily routine time-table.

I'm sure the schools think we parents are all feckless idiots that let them stay up till 3am for fun and have no meal times etc. I'm sick of the patronising communication and assumptions of it all.

They also try to get her to attend after school clubs. She can't as she's so overwhelmed by 5 days a week as it is. The last thing she can deal with is more expectation and more masking. I think they see me as holding her back. Creating an insular world for her. No, we've tried all the clubs, the parties and all the rest of it. It doesn't work for her and makes her ill.

They tried to make her attend the school swimming lessons (she can swim already I made sure of that with 1 to 1 lessons) but she had a bowel issue at the time. Severe constipation caused by sensory issues. She was having bad reactions with the movicol so she was scared she would shit herself in the pool, never mind the noise and 30 other kids on top of that worry. They just kept telling me she was missing out and I was stopping her mixing with other kids.

They give out attendance awards in assembly. She's never had one as shes disabled and has a load of health problems. It makes her feel like shit. They gave every kid in the class a certificate for walking or scooting to school one week. Except her. She didn't get one as shes disabled so it made her feel like shit. And then they tell you routine is good for kids. Mixing with other kids is the best thing for kids. These are SENCOs talking about disabled and Neurodivergent kids. They haven't got a fucking clue.

The lack of awareness never fails to amaze me. I'm the expert on my child, not them and one size doesn't fit all. Shaming and gaslighting parents just makes it all 100 times harder. But yeah, routine is good for kids.

Sorry for the rant. I've just made some notes for my next meeting with the school...

yes, let’s have a ‘fun’ non uniform day, let’s go and haves couple of trial sessions of rugby, let’s throw in a play we’re doing with two other classes, let’s have free flow and you choose activities and multiply the noise, choices and transitions.

https://www.tes.com/magazine/analysis/specialist-sector/emotionally-based-school-avoidance-approach-impact

@RainbowZebraWarrior, your post really resonated as did many others. We have had all this & more from the school & ‘well meaning’ professionals. I’m actually finding it very empowering to know how common it is. And like you say these people are supposed to be experts but they act as though your child is some kind of alien. And it’s supposedly always YOU as a parent holding them back with your anxiety. Bloody infuriating!

@RainbowZebraWarrior attendance awards are the most pointless things ever.
One of my DDs will probably never get one, all it does is add to the school anxiety and makes her feel different to everyone else. My other DD got 100% attendance award last year and couldn’t give a shiny shit, she would have rather had a few days off school.

@RainbowZebraWarrior I'm so sorry to hear of that experience for your daughter and you. It's so incredibly frustrating that school staff just can't see things from your daughter's point of view. It beggars belief in these days where disabilities are protected by law, and yet school children can be treated like this.